Ever been ripped off by a car mechanic?

1. Scenario A. You get an average mechanic, who charges an average $100/hour and does the job in the designated 4 hours. You pay $400.
2. Scenario B. You get a master mechanic, he can do the job in 2 hours. He would charge you $200/hour. you pay $400.
3. Scenario C. You get a junior mechanic, he can do the job in 8 hours, he charges you $50/hour, you still pay $400.
4. Scenario D. You get a good mechanic, he does the job in 3 hours, but due to the flat rate system, he charges you for 4 hours at his average rate of $100, you STILL pay $400.


1,2,3 make perfectly good scents.

But for four the mechanic going home with four hours of pay for three hours of work. Hear, they call that padding the timesheet and it'd be illegal when we sign we worked xx hours on the timecard. Anywhere I can charge 9 hours for 7 hours of working and get away with it, even if I'm good?

This kind of junk makes me glad to have a leased car now that I don't have to pay to have fixed.

I suppose that engine repairer charged a flat rate and was expert enough to do it in no time and charge full time.

You don't have a clue and I don't think you have the capacity to understand anyway....

1. Scenario A. You get an average mechanic, who charges an average $100/hour and does the job in the designated 4 hours. You pay $400.
2. Scenario B. You get a master mechanic, he can do the job in 2 hours. He would charge you $200/hour. you pay $400.
3. Scenario C. You get a junior mechanic, he can do the job in 8 hours, he charges you $50/hour, you still pay $400.
4. Scenario D. You get a good mechanic, he does the job in 3 hours, but due to the flat rate system, he charges you for 4 hours at his average rate of $100, you STILL pay $400.


1,2,3 make perfectly good scents.

But for four the mechanic going home with four hours of pay for three hours of work. Here they call that padding the timesheet and it'd be illegal when we sign we worked xx hours on the timecard. Anywhere I can charge 9 hours for 7 hours of working and get away with it? This kind of junk makes me glad to have a leased car now that I don't have to pay to have fixed.

I suppose that engine repairer charged a flat rate and was expert enough to do it in no time and charge full time.

Yep, it appears that the capacity just ain't there.

No, parts are ordered from vendors, whether it be a Dealership that parts need to come from, or a "jobber" that the parts need to come from. Where we are there is a huge Auto Warehouse that stocks many parts for all makes and models for automobiles. But if it's a Lexus and you need brakes for it - you must get them from a Lexus Dealership, because that is the only place that will have them in stock that day you are changing the brakes - unless you want to call up the customer and tell them they need to wait one more day or two - until the brakes are delivered from the "jobber".

Rebuilt parts almost never - unless agreed upon between the customer and the owner - such as an engine or a transmission - which is a big ticket item. Then it comes down to whether or not depending on the vehicle whether you want a factory rebuilt engine/trans with a warranty - or one that comes without. There are too many variables with that scenario - but the customer is always advised as to what is what.

Who would ever put in a used timing belt, used brakes, used radiator, used power steering pump, etc. Just plain stupid, imho.

Sometimes customers walk in and ask how much a labor charge is. I give them a price and they say "wow thats alot, it only takes xx amount of time..I could do that myself".. I then respond.."go do it then, im not here to work for free" (they usually just stand there and have a blank face after I say that).

Even for simple things, if you want someone to do it for you, they will charge. Nothing is free in this world. Why should I (anyone) waste my time for someone else, even if its 5/10/15 minutes. I'd rather be sleeping than to do something for free.

Plus take into consideration the cost of running the actual business. Most people don't know the real cost of running a business.

Not aiming this specifically at you, just adding to the discussion.

You don't have a clue and I don't think you have the capacity to understand anyway but what you don't get is that not all jobs come out in favor of the mechanic. The "flat rate" times are constantly being analyzed and change based on new procedures and technologies. What they generally are is average times to do a job under normal conditions. Of course someone who works on the same thing all the time will be able to do a job a little quicker than someone doing it for the first time.

Say a job has a flat rate time of 4 hours. Say you happen to get the new guy working on your car. He has little experience and has never done this particular repair before and he just started working at the shop so is unfamiliar with the equipment and where to find things. Instead of getting the job done in 3.5 hours like one of the other mechanics might have been able to he ends up spending all day on it.

Would you be satisfied paying the 8 hours labor that was put into the job? No, you would probably be whining like a little baby just like you have all the way through this thread.

This mechanic would get paid for 4 hours after putting in 8 on the job. Sometimes this happens because of inexperience or being new like in this example but even more often there are other factors that are not controllable. They might have to fight with rusty nuts and bolts, sometimes prior repairs were done incorrectly and add additional work to a job. Sometimes the flat rate times are just plain wrong and nobody could do the job in the specified time.

A lot of mechanics will buy more and more specialty tools to get jobs done quicker to make more money. Should a mechanic who has $75,000 worth of tools in his tool box make less money than one who has only spent $10,000?

Why does it bother you so much?

Let me give you an example (though completely useless since you're having a hard time thinking outside the box)

You pay a flat rate fee for your car. The book says it takes 4 hours to do the job.

1. Scenario A. You get an average mechanic, who charges an average $100/hour and does the job in the designated 4 hours. You pay $400.
2. Scenario B. You get a master mechanic, he can do the job in 2 hours. He would charge you $200/hour. you pay $400.
3. Scenario C. You get a junior mechanic, he can do the job in 8 hours, he charges you $50/hour, you still pay $400.
4. Scenario D. You get a good mechanic, he does the job in 3 hours, but due to the flat rate system, he charges you for 4 hours at his average rate of $100, you STILL pay $400.

Which would would make you feel better? A, B and C? But not D, right? Why? You still end up paying the same amount of money

Take the time to get to know the Service Manager who writes ups the tickets - and smooze him a little - he is the one who you want to give your vehicle to the A Class Technician, not the B or C Class Tech. Tell him exactly what you stated above, your folks have been purchasing cars for 12 years from this dealership and you have loyalty as well there - and your expect the very best A Class Technician to work on your vehicle and nothing less. Most Dealership have ASE Mechanics working there - and there is a list of them somewhere posted - and it will list what certificates they currently have - my husband is Certified in all categories - and did so in one test period with ASE and they thought he was the day he went into test - as no one EVER tested and passed all Certs in one day. You want the Tech with the most Certs on that listing. Then you know you have one of the very best. Of course, the Dealership sends MOST of the Techs to training classes, but not all - they pick and choose whom they want to send - the A Class get the best training, as they are working on the newer cars that come out as well.

A little story for ya'll - we went to look at a Toyota Hybrid - just to check it over - and you know what we found out at the Dealership here which is a HUGE Toyota Dealership - they only had ONE Certified Technician that was capable of working on these particular vehicles - which we found unbelievable. So if there was an issue with your vehicle - it was gonna be a while before you got it back. This is a place which built a separate location with 72 bays just for repairs, and another area just for body work, and still only ONE Technician Certified to work on the Hybrids, pretty sad isn't it.



You want a new alternator or water pump that wasn't rebuilt - that ask for OEM, that simple, not hard to do.



Excellent response

Kudo's to spelling Flat properly

I got hit pretty hard by a shop down in Kendall, Florida called Turbo Clinic. I gave him close to $10,000 to build two engines for my RX-7 and he screwed both of them up, in a big way. Stripped the thread on the rotor housings/plates, reused seals, the brand new housings i gave him weren't even the ones he used (these are $800 each!!).

I informed him of the evidence and expert witnesses I have, and now he's trying to play nice. I'm not going to say what I'd be willing to settle outside of court for ... but I can tell you that I will be suing him for >$30,000-$25,000 (shop charges + cost of my parts + gas/lost time from work + loss on sale of vehicles due to faulty work + punitive damages as these cars were being built to start my autocross and road racing career), unsure of the exact amount but I know its in the ballpark area.

When all else fails, go the legal route

1. Scenario A. You get an average mechanic, who charges an average $100/hour and does the job in the designated 4 hours. You pay $400.
2. Scenario B. You get a master mechanic, he can do the job in 2 hours. He would charge you $200/hour. you pay $400.
3. Scenario C. You get a junior mechanic, he can do the job in 8 hours, he charges you $50/hour, you still pay $400.
4. Scenario D. You get a good mechanic, he does the job in 3 hours, but due to the flat rate system, he charges you for 4 hours at his average rate of $100, you STILL pay $400.


1,2,3 make perfectly good scents.

But for four the mechanic going home with four hours of pay for three hours of work. Here they call that padding the timesheet and it'd be illegal when we sign we worked xx hours on the timecard. Anywhere I can charge 9 hours for 7 hours of working and get away with it? This kind of junk makes me glad to have a leased car now that I don't have to pay to have fixed.

I suppose that engine repairer charged a flat rate and was expert enough to do it in no time and charge full time.

Have you ever worked with a painter or contractor, and they give you an estimate for painting your house? They estimate it'll cost you $1,000. How did they get that number? They look at your house, and think it'll take 10 hours to paint, and they want to charge you $100/hour, so thus $1,000 total. What if they're done in 9 hours, do you ask for $100 back? No, because they give you a flat fee for the service.

For the mechanic, it's the same thing -- you pay a flat fee for some repair jobs as well. It's different from your desk job. At your desk job, if you're "good" at what you do and can do it faster than jo-shmoe, you get a raise/promotion/etc. For a mechanic, under the flat fee system, he may opt to charge you the "industry average" rate, but if he works fast, he can get 10 cars/day through his shop instead of 5 .

As the customer YOU still pay the same thing out of pocket (whether he charges a flat fee and gets it done quicker, or he charge you 2x more per hour and charges you hourly)


I don't say this often, but I give up.

Pretty much got ripped off at a Pep Boys (yes I know, I took it there despite all the horror stories) a few years ago. Alternator on car went...so they went to replace it and told me I needed a new battery too as it completely killed it. I questioned it, because the battery was only a few months old. They insisted that I buy a battery. I made sure they gave me the old battery back (they almost "forgot" to put it back in my car...they knew it was not dead). My father needed a battery, and what do you know? Stuck it in his car and it's been going fine ever since.

Now I only go to Pep Boys for tires, when I can "rip them off" by using a bunch of coupons on top of it.

You assume everyone's being paid the same amount. The experienced mechanic should be earning a lot more per hour than the new kid on the block who doesn't know where the whatchamacallit is. And the one who's experienced enough to justify having more overhead equiopment should be charging more per hour than the corner newbie with basic tools.

A junior mechanic should not be paid the same rate as a master mechanic, that's just nuts and it's what you're basing this fat rate payment system on. It doens't do the consumer any good.

I realize I am wasting my time trying to fit a grape into a pea brain but what the mechanic gets paid has nothing to do with the labor rate that the shop charges. It doesn't matter if the tech is getting paid $15 per flat rate hour or $30 per flat rate hour. The shop labor rate is still going to be a set rate per hour; in this case maybe $50 per hour.

So again, if the lower paid tech takes 8 hours to do a 4 hour job he makes $60. The more experienced tech does it in 4 hours and makes $120. If he busts his ass and does it in 3 hours he will still make $120. In all of these cases the shop still charges the same labor rate and the customer pays $200.

All of the labor charges do not make ti down to the mechanic in a flat rate shop. The shop still has to make money as well or why would they be in business?

Which is why I'm giving up trying to explain to

I got hit pretty hard by a shop down in Kendall, Florida called Turbo Clinic. I gave him close to $10,000 to build two engines for my RX-7 and he screwed both of them up, in a big way. Stripped the thread on the rotor housings/plates, reused seals, the brand new housings i gave him weren't even the ones he used (these are $800 each!!).

I informed him of the evidence and expert witnesses I have, and now he's trying to play nice. I'm not going to say what I'd be willing to settle outside of court for ... but I can tell you that I will be suing him for >$30,000-$25,000 (shop charges + cost of my parts + gas/lost time from work + loss on sale of vehicles due to faulty work + punitive damages as these cars were being built to start my autocross and road racing career), unsure of the exact amount but I know its in the ballpark area.

When all else fails, go the legal route

Nobody here gets it man

Bill says 4 hours labour, you should work on it for four hours and don't lie.

Bill says labour charge flat rate, that's it.

Understoud? Lying on time is ripping someone off.

good luck, I dont think I would trust anyone to rebuild a rotary engine properly