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R U an ultracrepidarian?
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Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe
December 2, 2007 at
08:48 PM
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personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be mod alerted, if you wish to set someone apart use generalities, such as specific religion not speific person on SD for example
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you dont get the right to feel insulted, u have been warned...
so, peeps, if you dont believe in god, do you feel that ones that do are delusional?
a lot of people will sight karma or other things as 'he got what he had coming' but i argue that it's all a mathematical randomness that on a small scale might seem like karma
perfect example is: when you play poker and u push with the best hand, a LOT of times, you can predict/be so sure that the card will come that will beat you even if the chance of it coming is less than 1:6. when the card comes, some might argue it as karma, but i argue that its all random, just on a small scale randomness doesn't work
discuss....
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you dont get the right to feel insulted, u have been warned...
so, peeps, if you dont believe in god, do you feel that ones that do are delusional?
a lot of people will sight karma or other things as 'he got what he had coming' but i argue that it's all a mathematical randomness that on a small scale might seem like karma
perfect example is: when you play poker and u push with the best hand, a LOT of times, you can predict/be so sure that the card will come that will beat you even if the chance of it coming is less than 1:6. when the card comes, some might argue it as karma, but i argue that its all random, just on a small scale randomness doesn't work
discuss....
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December 6, 2007
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If god showed himself to those NOT looking (the skeptics), that would be something else....
You're right. I could attribute it to something else if I wanted. All I can say is that I feel different - call me crazy if you want, but I swear he's with me. Experiences I've had don't make sense to me otherwise (like knowing about my husband's job 2 weeks ahead of time). I wish I could explain the feeling better, but I don't know how.
Also, if god is merciful, even if you stopped trying, he should still let you into heaven. Everyone makes mistakes.
wait... I'm confused by what you meant?
That makes no sense to me whatsoever. I live my life good because I believe living a good life is intrinsically valuable. I don't have another agenda to adhere to. I live for myself and my fellow man.
Existentialism is something I strongly believe in.
As for the idea that it may be a cop out, you're right. Some people do use it as a cop out. But I find this scripture extremely helpful to help those people understand that it isn't.
Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
Once again, just explaining the Christian viewpoint on the issue.
Again, thanks for the detailed write up, but I guess what makes it hard for me to believe/understand is the fact that I'm a very sciencey/logial type person. I'm also a touch type person (some people learn by seeing, some people learn by hearing, some people learn by touching, that's me), so this whole notion of "you have to believe in order to go to heaven" doesn't work for me, if god came down and said "you have to be good to go to heaven" (not the same words, I know) then I'd try my best to be good -- but just word of mouth,
And I still have a problem with god being portrayed as compassionate and merciful, but only if you believe. I understand the other side of the coin better now, but I still don't agree with it -- because in the passage that you showed, you showed what a HUMAN should/would do, but not what a GOD (who is said to be merciful) should do -- unless god is a lot more human than we thought, I still don't agree with it.
IMO if that is the case then god is playing games with people -- you can't touch/feel/see/hear me, nah-nanananana
Why is right for me to go commit 100,000 crimes against god, and then ask for forgiveness in a church and be forgiven and still go to heaven, but to someone who led a saint's life, but doesn't believe to go to hell?
And it's not believing. Lots of people believe in God but want nothing to do with him. It's believing, accepting the gift of Jesus and continuing to seek him.
I completely understand the idea about a horrible person repenting on the death bed and a good person not and it doesn't seem fair. What I believe is that we all sin. Every single one of us. God doesn't weigh sins the way we do, they are all equal to him. Honestly, in his eye I'm the same as an axe murderer because I have done some bad things that are just as upsetting to him. The difference is that the first person you described asked for forgiveness so his slate was wiped clean. The second person had also sinned, but did not ask for forgiveness.
You're right. I could attribute it to something else if I wanted. All I can say is that I feel different - call me crazy if you want, but I swear he's with me. Experiences I've had don't make sense to me otherwise (like knowing about my husband's job 2 weeks ahead of time). I wish I could explain the feeling better, but I don't know how.
This is an never ending loop. Back to my telepathy example. Or even better -- how does a mother feel when something is wrong with her child? can't be explained (TODAY, maybe in 100 years, we'll find out that humans can actually do telepathy or see into the future, or whatever else people today think is crazy).
events just happen to fall in to place to affect the outcome. I do not think nearly enough credit is given to yourself or your fellow man especially in regards to people that come close to death that have a strong religious background. It always seems that they must attribute to being saved by g_d however neglect to look at the fact that hey the surgeon didn't have to do anything. He could have just let you die on the table he had a choice to make to either save you or not to save you...not g_d. I am sure I will hear the argument well g_d put him there to save me....I say hogwash...if that was the case and g_d has a designed plan what does it matter what we do?
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If it's the last one (which one of your other posts indicates), then it doesn't make sense for Him to get that angry about it...
It was just an example. I meant that in our case, we wouldn't keep following someone who didn't want us around either.
Once again, just explaining the Christian viewpoint on the issue.
Well that throws one of my arguments out the window, and good.
I don't know what I want him to do; I guess maybe some tangible proof would be nice. I understand faith, but I don't always understand mystery.
God apparently revealed himself in tangible ways in the past. Why is it different now?
Why is it so important that we have free will when it comes to that one thing? If belief is necessary for salvation, then why would he leave that one area, the most important area of a person's life, up to such imperfect creatures (humans)?
That would be like me telling my husband to walk over an invisible bridge over a deadly precipice, or else I'll divorce him. Sure, he could do it out of faith and love, but wouldn't it be more prudent for me to make a visible bridge for him to walk over, especially since I love him and really want to be married to him? Asking him to stay faithful to me, to treat me well, and be a good person and a good husband are all things that affect our marriage, but he has a choice to do or not to do those things. He has a choice to walk over the bridge (or not) but isn't that asking a lot of someone, especially since we are (mostly
Again, thanks for the detailed write up, but I guess what makes it hard for me to believe/understand is the fact that I'm a very sciencey/logial type person. I'm also a touch type person (some people learn by seeing, some people learn by hearing, some people learn by touching, that's me), so this whole notion of "you have to believe in order to go to heaven" doesn't work for me, if god came down and said "you have to be good to go to heaven" (not the same words, I know) then I'd try my best to be good -- but just word of mouth,
And I still have a problem with god being portrayed as compassionate and merciful, but only if you believe. I understand the other side of the coin better now, but I still don't agree with it -- because in the passage that you showed, you showed what a HUMAN should/would do, but not what a GOD (who is said to be merciful) should do -- unless god is a lot more human than we thought, I still don't agree with it.
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I don't know what I want him to do; I guess maybe some tangible proof would be nice. I understand faith, but I don't always understand mystery.
God apparently revealed himself in tangible ways in the past. Why is it different now?
Why is it so important that we have free will when it comes to that one thing? If belief is necessary for salvation, then why would he leave that one area, the most important area of a person's life, up to such imperfect creatures (humans)?
That would be like me telling my husband to walk over an invisible bridge over a deadly precipice, or else I'll divorce him. Sure, he could do it out of faith and love, but wouldn't it be more prudent for me to make a visible bridge for him to walk over, especially since I love him and really want to be married to him? Asking him to stay faithful to me, to treat me well, and be a good person and a good husband are all things that affect our marriage, but he has a choice to do or not to do those things. He has a choice to walk over the bridge (or not) but isn't that asking a lot of someone, especially since we are (mostly
BEG, I wish I could help you know that God is real. I know I have prayed for a sign, and he would answer my prayer, and I would turn right around and doubt the sign and think it was a coincidence.
As I was reading your thoughts about your husband, I thought, that's what God did for us. God, as a perfect being, did not know what it meant to be tempted to sin, he did not know what it meant to surrender, or submit, he did not know what it meant to be human. So he came to earth, to be human, to be tempted and not sin, to surrender to the Fathers will, to feel seperated from the Father.... to take on all of our sins.... with no guarantee that we would ever accept his gift, his love....
We can only love him because he first loved us.
You are upset because he is an invisible being... but that is what he is. Some people have had experiences with him, I don't know why not everyone does. I am sure more people do than we know, but they are only met with skeptisim. No one can convince another person God is real.
In my life, if I were to clear out all churches, all religions, the bible, and just think about my own life and experiences, I know God is real. I see his work in my life. I see the way he has changed me where I shouldn't have changed. I haven't experienced God in the way I have always wanted to experience him, but when I look at the incredible web of threads that is life I see Him. I see Him in the million of "coincidences" and "good luck" and "fortunate" that takes place, the perfection of this person being here when I needed them, or the money coming in at the last moment, or the phone call that came right when I needed it.
I could go deeper, and tell you other things I have seen. But I have already read enough about "these crazy Christians" to want to put myself out there. You can pm me and I will tell you. But I have learned that no matter what I tell you, it probably won't have an affect if you don't want to believe. Nothing anyone can say will affect your free will.
BTW when I say "you" I don't mean you, BEG. It's just a clumsy pronoun~ maybe I should try to use "one" instead.