Model: Crucial MX500 4TB SATA III 2.5" Internal SSD
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Performance seems about the same any difference is not noticable outside of benchmarker with small penis. Go with the Samsung for higher TBW. But then again you are paying more.
Either is fine
Agreed here as long as you'll actually be using this drive heavily. At 1PB TBW, the Crucial will be perfectly fine for the vast majority of people as a general storage drive, but Samsung's significantly higher 2.4BP TBW will provide functionally unlimited lifespan for all but the heaviest consumers, as long as you aren't using it as a cache drive, scratch disc, or something.
4TB MX500 has 512MB DRAM, it was downgraded !
I won't say "do not buy it" as it is still a good quality drive, but I wound buy the nvme one or 2TB version if you only have sata port.
Tough choice here. 4TB MX500 good quality drive TLC with DRAM vs 4TB P3. Looking at sustained write and cache performance, the limitations of the P3 show up. It is not meant for sustained writes, After 550GB written in 3 minutes, transfer speed essentially stops. So if you are ever trying to copy more than 550GB at a single time, it will take forever. More precisely, transfer speed goes from 3200 MB/sec to 100 MB/sec. That is slower than spinning hard drives. Whereas the MX500 transfer speed goes from 450MB/sec to 200 MB/sec after the cache is full. The cache is dynamically allocated. A 1TB drive has 46GB max.
I have a media server that has a slow 2 channel NVme slot and a SATA slot. Right now I have a 1 TB NVMe system and a 2 TB M500 SATA to hold movies. It is almost full. If I use the P3, then the system drive would be slower. Transferring the old drive to the P3 would take a very long time, but that is a one time issue. I would not transfer more than 550GB otherwise. That would give me 6TB total, doubling my storage, If I get the MX500, I would keep a fast 1 TB NVMe and simply replace the 2TB M500 with a 4TB MX500 and the speed would stay the same as it is now. Because NVMe is more modern technology, I would rather spend on something with greater longevity so I think I will go with the P3.
I hope this is helpful for those trying to decide between the 2.
Nice, I wonder if this will be the best price for a good brand SSD for black Friday. Just built a new desktop and used a 1TB Samsung 980 Pro NVME as boot drive and need another SSD for storage to go along with my 4TB mechanical drive that I will move from my old machine.
I just built a new Desktop myself
I went with a 980 pro 1tb OS drive (NVME)
two Refurbished 970 Evo Plus 1tb and 980 non pro 1tb (NVME)
and a new MX500 1tb (SSD) and WD UltraStar 8tb (regular HDD)
FYI, Crucial handicapped the 4TB with less DRAM per TB.
Correct. The 4TB version has only 512MB of DRAM, 1/8th the amount it should have.
Quote
from Korishan
:
Ultimately this deal sucks! It only has 360 terabyte write (TBW) endurance. That's horrible performance. Do not use this drive for normal every day usage. Only thing it's good for is backups and rarely updating the data on it.
Don't use it for boot drive, gaming drive, photo/video editing drive, logs, etc. Long term storage is recommended.
Most good SSDs now come with PBW, or Petabyte Write endurance. For that to be 360TBW, one could chew through that in just a few years. Just to put into perspective, one would only need to write 1Terabyte of data a day and this drive would be toast in a year. That seems like a lot of data, but also consider this is TLC NAND, and requires writing "3" bits per cell. Which means that if 1 of those bits changes, it has to read the other 2 and re-write all 3 in a new location. Change 1 letter in a txt document of 2 words, and the whole thing has to be rewritten in a new location. So that low TBW endurance level gets chewed through pretty quickly.
I could not disagree more. You are also incorrect about several things. Let me go through your claims:
1. It only has 360 terabyte write (TBW) endurance. - Incorrect, the 1TB model is warranted for 360TB. This 4TB model is warranted for 1000TB. Additionally, this is the warranted endurance. People put FAR too much stock in this number. It's for warranty purposes. It's like saying that a car warranted for 100,000 miles will last longer than one warranted for 60,000 miles. It's just how much the company is willing to commit to covering under warranty. Crucial seems to be very conservative in this area. I have seen nothing indicating that the actual endurance of the flash is significantly lower than that from other companies.
2. That's horrible performance. - Endurance has nothing to do with performance. The MX500 is one of the top performing SATA drives.
3. Do not use this drive for normal every day usage. Only thing it's good for is backups and rarely updating the data on it. Don't use it for boot drive, gaming drive, photo/video editing drive, logs, etc. Long term storage is recommended. - Utter nonsense. It's perfectly fine for any of those uses. It uses TLC NAND and has DRAM (even if not the ideal amount). The only thing I would not recommend it for is if you need extremely high sequential reads/writes, in which case you should use a NVMe drive.
4. Most good SSDs now come with PBW, or Petabyte Write endurance. For that to be 360TBW, one could chew through that in just a few years. Just to put into perspective, one would only need to write 1Terabyte of data a day and this drive would be toast in a year. That seems like a lot of data, but also consider this is TLC NAND, and requires writing "3" bits per cell. Which means that if 1 of those bits changes, it has to read the other 2 and re-write all 3 in a new location. Change 1 letter in a txt document of 2 words, and the whole thing has to be rewritten in a new location. So that low TBW endurance level gets chewed through pretty quickly. -
As mentioned above, it IS warranted for 1PB. Regardless, the average person will not reach anywhere near that level in the drives useful lifespan. The average person is not writing close to 1TB per day. Most people probably aren't exceeding 10-20GB per day, if that. I have yet to encounter a drive that has averaged over 10TB per YEAR, not that that would be an unrealistic number.
You are also incorrect about how these drives work and are warranted. Yes, data existing in a particular cell can not be directly modified. Single cells of NAND can not be directly programmed. They must be programmed in Pages (often something like 16KiB each). Erases must be done in Blocks, which consist of numerous pages. So, while you are correct that data can not usually be modified in place, the details are not correct. However, you are wrong about the point you are trying to make.
The issues you are referring to refer to Write Amplification. This takes into account the difference between the amount of data written to the drive by the host PC/device and the amount of data written to the NAND by the drive. Some drives are capable of directly or indirectly reporting host and/or NAND writes. NAND writes are the value more directly indicative of amount of wear. However, the warranted endurance is based on the amount of host writes, not NAND writes. To return to the car analogy, going by NAND writes would be like a car company trying to differentiate between how many city vs highway miles they would cover. It's easier for them to just consider normal usage patterns and specify a particular number of TBW (or miles) to cover under warranty.
Quote
from whodiini
:
Tough choice here. 4TB MX500 good quality drive TLC with DRAM vs 4TB P3. Looking at sustained write and cache performance, the limitations of the P3 show up. It is not meant for sustained writes, After 550GB written in 3 minutes, transfer speed essentially stops. So if you are ever trying to copy more than 550GB at a single time, it will take forever. More precisely, transfer speed goes from 3200 MB/sec to 100 MB/sec. That is slower than spinning hard drives. Whereas the MX500 transfer speed goes from 450MB/sec to 200 MB/sec after the cache is full. The cache is dynamically allocated. A 1TB drive has 46GB max.
I have a media server that has a slow 2 channel NVme slot and a SATA slot. Right now I have a 1 TB NVMe system and a 2 TB M500 SATA to hold movies. It is almost full. If I use the P3, then the system drive would be slower. Transferring the old drive to the P3 would take a very long time, but that is a one time issue. I would not transfer more than 550GB otherwise. That would give me 6TB total, doubling my storage, If I get the MX500, I would keep a fast 1 TB NVMe and simply replace the 2TB M500 with a 4TB MX500 and the speed would stay the same as it is now. Because NVMe is more modern technology, I would rather spend on something with greater longevity so I think I will go with the P3.
I hope this is helpful for those trying to decide between the 2.
Where did you see that the 4TB MX500 will drop to 200MB/s when the SLC cache is full? I could have sworn I read that one of the smaller versions (1TB maybe) only drops to 400MB/s.
While this drive is published with 1000 TBW, ZFS forums are showing these as cache/slog drives with 5-6 times more writes without any drive failures and still going.
"Crucial admits that this results in a loss of performance for certain workloads, and indeed the decision was felled for cost reasons. However, for most desktop applications, the difference is unlikely to be noticeable."
"Crucial admits that this results in a loss of performance for certain workloads, and indeed the decision was felled for cost reasons. However, for most desktop applications, the difference is unlikely to be noticeable."
Yeah, I doubt most will notice but I just wanted to make sure people were aware. I mean, most will be fine with DRAMless ones.
Where did you see that the 4TB MX500 will drop to 200MB/s when the SLC cache is full? I could have sworn I read that one of the smaller versions (1TB maybe) only drops to 400MB/s.
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Either is fine
Agreed here as long as you'll actually be using this drive heavily. At 1PB TBW, the Crucial will be perfectly fine for the vast majority of people as a general storage drive, but Samsung's significantly higher 2.4BP TBW will provide functionally unlimited lifespan for all but the heaviest consumers, as long as you aren't using it as a cache drive, scratch disc, or something.
I won't say "do not buy it" as it is still a good quality drive, but I wound buy the nvme one or 2TB version if you only have sata port.
I have a media server that has a slow 2 channel NVme slot and a SATA slot. Right now I have a 1 TB NVMe system and a 2 TB M500 SATA to hold movies. It is almost full. If I use the P3, then the system drive would be slower. Transferring the old drive to the P3 would take a very long time, but that is a one time issue. I would not transfer more than 550GB otherwise. That would give me 6TB total, doubling my storage, If I get the MX500, I would keep a fast 1 TB NVMe and simply replace the 2TB M500 with a 4TB MX500 and the speed would stay the same as it is now. Because NVMe is more modern technology, I would rather spend on something with greater longevity so I think I will go with the P3.
I hope this is helpful for those trying to decide between the 2.
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I went with a 980 pro 1tb OS drive (NVME)
two Refurbished 970 Evo Plus 1tb and 980 non pro 1tb (NVME)
and a new MX500 1tb (SSD) and WD UltraStar 8tb (regular HDD)
Got lots of room for all my stuff
Don't use it for boot drive, gaming drive, photo/video editing drive, logs, etc. Long term storage is recommended.
Most good SSDs now come with PBW, or Petabyte Write endurance. For that to be 360TBW, one could chew through that in just a few years. Just to put into perspective, one would only need to write 1Terabyte of data a day and this drive would be toast in a year. That seems like a lot of data, but also consider this is TLC NAND, and requires writing "3" bits per cell. Which means that if 1 of those bits changes, it has to read the other 2 and re-write all 3 in a new location. Change 1 letter in a txt document of 2 words, and the whole thing has to be rewritten in a new location. So that low TBW endurance level gets chewed through pretty quickly.
1. It only has 360 terabyte write (TBW) endurance. - Incorrect, the 1TB model is warranted for 360TB. This 4TB model is warranted for 1000TB. Additionally, this is the warranted endurance. People put FAR too much stock in this number. It's for warranty purposes. It's like saying that a car warranted for 100,000 miles will last longer than one warranted for 60,000 miles. It's just how much the company is willing to commit to covering under warranty. Crucial seems to be very conservative in this area. I have seen nothing indicating that the actual endurance of the flash is significantly lower than that from other companies.
2. That's horrible performance. - Endurance has nothing to do with performance. The MX500 is one of the top performing SATA drives.
3. Do not use this drive for normal every day usage. Only thing it's good for is backups and rarely updating the data on it. Don't use it for boot drive, gaming drive, photo/video editing drive, logs, etc. Long term storage is recommended. - Utter nonsense. It's perfectly fine for any of those uses. It uses TLC NAND and has DRAM (even if not the ideal amount). The only thing I would not recommend it for is if you need extremely high sequential reads/writes, in which case you should use a NVMe drive.
4. Most good SSDs now come with PBW, or Petabyte Write endurance. For that to be 360TBW, one could chew through that in just a few years. Just to put into perspective, one would only need to write 1Terabyte of data a day and this drive would be toast in a year. That seems like a lot of data, but also consider this is TLC NAND, and requires writing "3" bits per cell. Which means that if 1 of those bits changes, it has to read the other 2 and re-write all 3 in a new location. Change 1 letter in a txt document of 2 words, and the whole thing has to be rewritten in a new location. So that low TBW endurance level gets chewed through pretty quickly. -
As mentioned above, it IS warranted for 1PB. Regardless, the average person will not reach anywhere near that level in the drives useful lifespan. The average person is not writing close to 1TB per day. Most people probably aren't exceeding 10-20GB per day, if that. I have yet to encounter a drive that has averaged over 10TB per YEAR, not that that would be an unrealistic number.
You are also incorrect about how these drives work and are warranted. Yes, data existing in a particular cell can not be directly modified. Single cells of NAND can not be directly programmed. They must be programmed in Pages (often something like 16KiB each). Erases must be done in Blocks, which consist of numerous pages. So, while you are correct that data can not usually be modified in place, the details are not correct. However, you are wrong about the point you are trying to make.
The issues you are referring to refer to Write Amplification. This takes into account the difference between the amount of data written to the drive by the host PC/device and the amount of data written to the NAND by the drive. Some drives are capable of directly or indirectly reporting host and/or NAND writes. NAND writes are the value more directly indicative of amount of wear. However, the warranted endurance is based on the amount of host writes, not NAND writes. To return to the car analogy, going by NAND writes would be like a car company trying to differentiate between how many city vs highway miles they would cover. It's easier for them to just consider normal usage patterns and specify a particular number of TBW (or miles) to cover under warranty.
I have a media server that has a slow 2 channel NVme slot and a SATA slot. Right now I have a 1 TB NVMe system and a 2 TB M500 SATA to hold movies. It is almost full. If I use the P3, then the system drive would be slower. Transferring the old drive to the P3 would take a very long time, but that is a one time issue. I would not transfer more than 550GB otherwise. That would give me 6TB total, doubling my storage, If I get the MX500, I would keep a fast 1 TB NVMe and simply replace the 2TB M500 with a 4TB MX500 and the speed would stay the same as it is now. Because NVMe is more modern technology, I would rather spend on something with greater longevity so I think I will go with the P3.
I hope this is helpful for those trying to decide between the 2.
https://allinfo.space/2021/10/01/...niversary/
"Crucial admits that this results in a loss of performance for certain workloads, and indeed the decision was felled for cost reasons. However, for most desktop applications, the difference is unlikely to be noticeable."
https://allinfo.space/2021/10/01/...niversary/
"Crucial admits that this results in a loss of performance for certain workloads, and indeed the decision was felled for cost reasons. However, for most desktop applications, the difference is unlikely to be noticeable."
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Where did you see that the 4TB MX500 will drop to 200MB/s when the SLC cache is full? I could have sworn I read that one of the smaller versions (1TB maybe) only drops to 400MB/s.
https://www.tomshardwar
The 1TB is 400 MB/sec; your memory is correct
https://www.tomshardwar
However, the 4TB drops to 250MB/sec when the cache is exceeded. Oddly, it jumps back up to 350MB/sec:
https://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/c...-atto.html