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expired Posted by chunmanc123 • Oct 6, 2023
expired Posted by chunmanc123 • Oct 6, 2023

Tesla Model Y Dual Motor AWD Long Range $48490 + $7,500 Federal Tax Credit (For Qualifying Buyers)

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https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#overview

Tesla Model Y

Dual Motor
All-Wheel Drive
Range: 330mi
Top Speed: 135 mph
0-60 mph: 4.8 seconds


Qualify for $7500 Federal Tax Credit with below income cap:
Adjusted Gross Income Limitations
$300,000 for married couples filing jointly
$225,000 for heads of households
$150,000 for all other filers

QA Note: List Price Drop

Rear-Wheel Drive is $43,990

Dual Motor AWD Long Range is $48,490 Now $48,990

Extra Discount for already built ones, change to your zip code and check
https://www.tesla.com/inventory/n...&range=100

Please use the referral link [ts.la] when you purchase one. Thank you!
Community Notes
About the Poster
Deal Details
Community Notes
About the Poster
https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#overview

Tesla Model Y

Dual Motor
All-Wheel Drive
Range: 330mi
Top Speed: 135 mph
0-60 mph: 4.8 seconds


Qualify for $7500 Federal Tax Credit with below income cap:
Adjusted Gross Income Limitations
$300,000 for married couples filing jointly
$225,000 for heads of households
$150,000 for all other filers

QA Note: List Price Drop

Rear-Wheel Drive is $43,990

Dual Motor AWD Long Range is $48,490 Now $48,990

Extra Discount for already built ones, change to your zip code and check
https://www.tesla.com/inventory/n...&range=100

Please use the referral link [ts.la] when you purchase one. Thank you!

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Oct 7, 2023
15,329 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Oct 7, 2023
Knightshade
Oct 7, 2023
15,329 Posts
Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
That is in theory.
Also in real life- since as mentioned there's been 2 different, independent, sets of real-world fleet data confirming the lifespans I cited in actual Teslas.


Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
There are some cases Tesla battery failures just after warranty.
Sure. There's some cases of Toyota engines failing that way too. Or Honda ones. Or anything.

Nothing is 100%.

Heck anyone remember when TONS of Toyota engines were dying due to the oil sludge problem they kept trying to blame on customers until forced to fix them out of warranty via class action lawsuit covering 2.5 million cars?


But we've got aggregate data over very large #s of vehicles, over many years, and all of that tells us all of those failures are usually rare exceptions.



Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
Also battery not age well. Of course, can't compare to cell phone one but still aged battery will have some inbalance in the chemical and corroded issues.
You really can't compare to cell phones- which have no active cooling at all, and relatively primative battery management systems.

it'd be like using your RC model ICE to guess how long a real car makers ICE vehicle will last-- it's apples and photographs of apples.



Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
We will never know until another decade there are more data about this

Dude. We HAVE a decade of data. The first Model S cars were sold in 2012.

At 200,000 miles the fleet is still retaining 88% of original charge on average.
Last edited by Knightshade October 7, 2023 at 01:05 PM.
1
Oct 7, 2023
1,808 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Oct 7, 2023
oppayah
Oct 7, 2023
1,808 Posts
Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
I didn't compare to ICE car. I owned an EV. Learnt a lot last 2-3 months about EV and battery..
Just stated battery can have issues after it's aged.
But you make it sound like a gasoline engine doesn't breakdown after 15 years. Both ICE and EV will breakdown over time. But EV's cost to maintain for next 15 years will be a lot less. I am not sure why anyone would want to keep an EV for 15 years since technology is going to improve so much.
Oct 7, 2023
1,808 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Oct 7, 2023
oppayah
Oct 7, 2023
1,808 Posts
Quote from FancyBuffalo847 :
Tesla's price seesaw continues.
Great for consumers!
Oct 7, 2023
711 Posts
Joined Dec 2007
Oct 7, 2023
wolfpac
Oct 7, 2023
711 Posts
Another shareholder inflated thumb-ups and front page again.
Oct 7, 2023
27 Posts
Joined Apr 2023
Oct 7, 2023
NervousLanguage2748
Oct 7, 2023
27 Posts
Quote from Knightshade :
Also in real life- since as mentioned there's been 2 different, independent, sets of real-world fleet data confirming the lifespans I cited in actual Teslas.




Sure. There's some cases of Toyota engines failing that way too. Or Honda ones. Or anything.

Nothing is 100%.

Heck anyone remember when TONS of Toyota engines were dying due to the oil sludge problem they kept trying to blame on customers until forced to fix them out of warranty via class action lawsuit?


But we've got aggregate data over very large #s of vehicles, over many years, and all of that tells us all of those failures are usually rare exceptions.





You really can't compare to cell phones- which have no active cooling at all, and relatively primative battery management systems.

it'd be like using your RC model ICE to guess how long a real car makers ICE vehicle will last-- it's apples and photographs of apples.






Dude. We HAVE a decade of data. The first Model S cars were sold in 2012.

At 200,000 miles the fleet is still retaining 88% of original charge on average.
If you do data science, that is not enough data to support.. it is initiative and AI today gather many years data to come to some results...

We have about 10- 15 years data if we include Leaf and roadster but Roadster I don't think was in market....
Oct 7, 2023
27 Posts
Joined Apr 2023
Oct 7, 2023
NervousLanguage2748
Oct 7, 2023
27 Posts
Quote from oppayah :
But you make it sound like a gasoline engine doesn't breakdown after 15 years. Both ICE and EV will breakdown over time. But EV's cost to maintain for next 15 years will be a lot less. I am not sure why anyone would want to keep an EV for 15 years since technology is going to improve so much.
I didn't say anything about ICE car the statement there.
And didn't mean to compare to ICE car any means.
Pro
Oct 7, 2023
2,135 Posts
Joined Dec 2010
Oct 7, 2023
roberthhid
Pro
Oct 7, 2023
2,135 Posts
Quote from oppayah :
2 Years of free service on the ID4? Why services did you need for the first 2 years.

With a Tesla, there are no recommended services for the first 2 years.

Not being able to buy a Tesla in Connecticut is because your state won't allow Tesla to sell there because Tesla does not use a middleman (dealership) to sell cars.

ID4 is cheaper and sells less volume than Model Y for a reason. Test drive both cars and you will see how ID4 underperforms and their infotainment system really sucks. Go to YouTube and can find many videos complaining about ID4 ownership.

I stood in line in 2016 to pre-order Model 3. Got delivery in 2018. Loved it so much and bought Model Y in 2022. Now, waiting for my Cybertruck (I don't even like a truck in general). LMAO
Serious question. How would I be able to test drive a Tesla? Do people mostly purchase them without test driving it?

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Oct 7, 2023
8,540 Posts
Joined Nov 2004
Oct 7, 2023
HCW
Oct 7, 2023
8,540 Posts
Quote from roberthhid :
Serious question. How would I be able to test drive a Tesla? Do people mostly purchase them without test driving it?
You can rent them at some Hertz locations
Oct 7, 2023
27 Posts
Joined Apr 2023
Oct 7, 2023
NervousLanguage2748
Oct 7, 2023
27 Posts
Quote from roberthhid :
Serious question. How would I be able to test drive a Tesla? Do people mostly purchase them without test driving it?
I didnt test drive.
Used to be you test drive you will get $500 off
But I had referral from my friend....

You can request test drive appointment. I think you will get 30 minutes to test drive it..
Oct 7, 2023
6,231 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Oct 7, 2023
PedroR
Oct 7, 2023
6,231 Posts
Quote from thehash :
their quality is like a 90s kia.
ouch!
Oct 7, 2023
2,311 Posts
Joined Aug 2004
Oct 7, 2023
mychaelp
Oct 7, 2023
2,311 Posts
Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
I didn't compare to ICE car. I owned an EV. Learnt a lot last 2-3 months about EV and battery..
Just stated battery can have issues after it's aged.
Let's compare.
Time stopping to charge: 30 minutes. Time equals money. So you lose precious time of your life. What is that worth? In Palm Desert I sat for 45 minutes just to get to a spot to charge in June with my Hertz rental. Then 20 minutes to charge. This was just so I could get back home.
Then when turning the car back in, had to wait for a spot to charge, then 10 more minutes to charge.
Gas zero stops on my trip until destination and 5 minute fill up to return.

Time is money. Time you don't get back in life.

After a few years government will tax EVs for every mile driven since they will begin losing too much gas tax. So fuel savings may evaporate.

Live in an apartment with 4 people and 2 cars. Where do you plug in?
Current CAa building code required 2 EV chargers for every 25 spaces. Good luck.

Drive on freeway and use the AC, expect to lose 25% range.

Leave car for a few weeks to go on vacation, check in it in apps and lose range


Tires wear out 25% faster casting more road debris. Not as good as the clean air though to be fair.

Parking garages need retrofits of more than 20% EV mix due to weight.

Faster road deterioration.

Constant plugging in and out. Ugh.

Toyota Corolla hybrid $24k. Save over 18k.
Over ,600 mile range
Gas savings over first few years for EV is maybe $500 or so for average driver. Maybe $1k.
Oil changes etc maybe $2k???
My 2002 Civic total cost on all receipts is $2.4k over all those years.

I want an EV, but not until they have more range and can charge more easily.

No way CA will be ending ICE in a few years. Not feasible yet.

Gas savings will end. Trust me. Government always will get their tax money they need for all their pet projects.

All this said, they are eager for the occupants, but not for who they hit.

Be careful with tax credit. It's not refundable. Need to make about $110k or so as married couple with no other deductions to get it all.
Oct 7, 2023
15,329 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Oct 7, 2023
Knightshade
Oct 7, 2023
15,329 Posts
Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
If you do data science, that is not enough data to support..
<citation required>


I'd love you to explain how 11 years of real-world data, over 200,000 miles, is not enough to judge how well the battery does give that's significantly longer than most people own a new car for.

Especially when that's the oldest, least endurant, battery tech Tesla ever mass produced, and nearly all their vehicles in the last 5-6 years ought to last significantly longer than even those due to advances in design, chemistry, cooling, and management.

Doubly so with LFPs which we've got tons of real world and lab evidence are good for 2-3x the number of cycles are NMC batteries.



Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
.
We have about 10- 15 years data if we include Leaf and roadster but Roadster I don't think was in market....

...what market?

And why would you include the Leaf, which is a completely different company, completely different battery, different cooling, different BMS, etc.
1
Oct 7, 2023
213 Posts
Joined Dec 2018
Oct 7, 2023
darth_fader
Oct 7, 2023
213 Posts
Quote from Tensoneu :
The comment was more for winter in cold temperature (were talking 35F or lower). You use more gas in the winter to heat up a car in the winter before you can drive, sometimes you may not be able to start an ICE car because it's too cold, or if you're vehicle is stuck in the snow and you want heat you have to be sure your exhaust isn't blocked from smoke and die from poisoning.

In an EV you don't experience those. I can have my heat for comfort and not having to worry about dying from being cold if I'm stuck. I can just go without having my car/engine to warm up. I don't have to worry about not starting if it gets extremely cold.

I only experience range loss 4 months out of the year so it's not a big deal. I rarely drive more than 150 miles in the winter in a single go. Even if I did I have access to superchargers. If I choose between refueling my car I'd rather be inside my car than to stay outside in the cold pumping gas. Even this is rare, maybe less than 5 times a year on road trips.

Most EV drivers have driven both types of cars (gas and electric). Most will tell you once you drive electric you won't go back to a gas vehicle.
I'm sure most EV owners would say that - most already spent the $40-60k+. There aren't many who would admit 'this was a mistake' whether they thought it was or not. There's a reason why people who buy EVs still have a gas vehicle. The reasons are obvious, the cold weather impact is just one of many. EVs have superior power delivery and torque, and that's it. For 80% of drivers, that's not a determining factor (most everything sold today are 4/6 cylinder because again, practiicality). And there's a reason why the highest overall quality auto maker (Toyota) still refuses to go all-in with EVs and only produces hybrids.

I'm not knocking people who buy them. It's a necessary growing pain, if EVs are ever going to be practical - and that's not guaranteed. But I won't play along with the mindset that it's a practical decision. It's not. The smart move is a hybrid from Toyota - you get the benefits of Toyota quality, some of the benefits of EV in terms of mileage boost and pure electric on short trips, yet without being tied to charging networks.
Oct 7, 2023
15,329 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Oct 7, 2023
Knightshade
Oct 7, 2023
15,329 Posts
Quote from mychaelp :
Let's compare.
Time stopping to charge: 30 minutes. Time equals money. So you lose precious time of your life.
Why are you stopping to charge for 30 minutes?

In normal use you stop for 5-10 minutes 1-2 times a week to put gas in.

With an EV you stop like that for 0 minutes and just plug in at home and it's ready to go every morning.

That means ICE cars waste far more time all year


Now, when you take a road trip over a couple hundred miles you will need to stop and charge. But again not 30 minutes unless you don't understand how an EV works.

You want to charge for 10-15 minutes, which will put 150-180 miles of range back on the car. then get back on the road.

In an LR Tesla that gets you ~500 miles down the road with the single stop--- nearer 650 miles with a second 10-15 minute stop.

Which you'd do ANYWAY in a gas car unless you're bringing a Gatorade bottle to pee in and never stopping for food or drinks.


Plus, again, all the time you saved the OTHER 50 weeks of the year NOT on a road trip not ever having to stop at a gas station.



Quote from mychaelp :
What is that worth? In Palm Desert I sat for 45 minutes just to get to a spot to charge in June with my Hertz rental

Not a Tesla I guess?

Again though over the course of a year you'd have saved far far far more than 45 minutes not stopping at gas stations week to week either way.




Quote from mychaelp :
After a few years government will tax EVs for every mile driven
How would they do that since lots of states don't require inspections and have no idea how many miles you drove?



Quote from mychaelp :
since they will begin losing too much gas tax. So fuel savings may evaporate.
I'd like to see your math here--- unless you imagine 90% of gas price is tax.



Quote from mychaelp :
Live in an apartment with 4 people and 2 cars. Where do you plug in?
No idea- but roughly 2/3rds of the US lives in detached single-family housing so they just plug in with no issue.

I agree for the minority living in dense apartment situations there's work yet to do.



Quote from mychaelp :
Current CAa building code required 2 EV chargers for every 25 spaces. Good luck.
FYI California state law (Civil Code section 1947.6) requires landlords to approve tenant requests to install EV charging stations in their dedicated parking spaces so long as the tenant is willing to pay for the charging station and associated costs, including installation and utility costs.

But as EV adoption grows landlords will be installing lots of chargers anyway as it'll start to become a competitive disadvantage not to.


Quote from mychaelp :
Leave car for a few weeks to go on vacation, check in it in apps and lose range
Sure... roughly 1% a week. Maybe 2-3% if you open the app a number of times, but why would you?


Quote from mychaelp :
Tires wear out 25% faster
<citation required>

Quote from mychaelp :
Parking garages need retrofits of more than 20% EV mix due to weight.
The Lexus IS350 gas car my Tesla replaced has a curb weight of 3,748 lbs.

The Model 3 starts at 3862 pounds.

Spoiler: that's not 20% more.


Quote from mychaelp :
No way CA will be ending ICE in a few years. Not feasible yet.
They're not trying to do so in "a few years"

The new regulation will require 35% of new-car sales to be zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs) in 2026 (it's already north of 25% of new car sales in CA FYI) and 68% in 2030 before reaching 100% five years later with a total ban in 2035.



Quote from mychaelp :
Gas savings will end. Trust me. Government always will get their tax money they need for all their pet projects.
You again appear to be confusing "the tax on gas" with "the actual cost of the gas"

One is much bigger than the other, and it ain't the tax.


Quote from mychaelp :
Be careful with tax credit. It's not refundable. Need to make about $110k or so as married couple with no other deductions to get it all.
First- your math is very wrong.

married filing jointly hits $7500 in liability at 66,150 in gross income with no deductions.

You can confirm that here:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/i1040tt--dft.pdf

Even if you DO add the standard deduction that's only $93,850--- almost 20k less than you claimed.

Second-- Funny story. As of Jan 1 2024 it is refundable in practice.

It becomes point of sale at the dealer- and if you later turn out not to have $7500 in tax liability the IRS will not seek to claw it back.
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Oct 7, 2023
213 Posts
Joined Dec 2018
Oct 7, 2023
darth_fader
Oct 7, 2023
213 Posts
Quote from NervousLanguage2748 :
What is the reason you think I am pessimistic about EV.
I owned one myself.. I just stated the facts. Battery still with a lot improvements to come, solid state or more investment to getting better.

Where did i said Model 3 is not good?
"The best car created for the money" is complete delusion. As long as there's a dependency on the Tesla charging network, and the amount of time it takes to get a reasonable charge, that's far from realistic. From an EV perspective, the best car created for the money would be anything Toyota hybrid. Pure electric for short trips, no reliance on charging networks, Toyota quality (higher than Tesla). G.D. people are piss drunk on the kool aid in this thread.
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