Leno returned to 11:30pm time slot

Thanks, that's great info. In other words, Conan is getting owned by the network shows, as expected. And Leno has regained the lead over Letterman. (Take that, Leno haters.)

Why would more people watch the inferior Leno than watch the better Letterman or Conan, unless they're idiots who can't see obvious jokes from a mile away? Sure, Letterman isn't trying, but neither is Leno, and Fallon does games better than Leno does.

When you're on cable, you're at an inherent disadvantage to the broadcast networks. As such, shows like Conan and the Daily Show have much lower expectations that they nail. I wouldn't say they're being "owned", they're doing quite well.

You can name call Leno all you want if it makes you feel good, but that's not going to lower his ratings or raise the ratings of Letterman or O'Brien enough to overtake Leno anytime soon.

My point from last year was that it was a dumb move for O'Brien to move to cable. No way would his ratings would be even close to what it would've been had he stayed on network TV. I guess FOX and ABC had no interest in him.

My point from last year was that it was a dumb move for O'Brien to move to cable. No way would his ratings would be even close to what it would've been had he stayed on network TV. I guess FOX and ABC had no interest in him.

There's a great article in the latest Fortune magazine. It makes the argument that ratings are comforting to network execs, but they're largely irrelevant for measuring viewership among young adults. It's worth a read.

Yea it's definitely becoming a thing of the past because of DVR and tivo, but it's not the network execs, it's the advertisers. Ad buy rates are still based on ratings, even if +7 numbers say something different. And advertisers are not going to jump to +7 numbers even though it gives you way more data, because people who dvr and tivo don't sit there and watch commercials. So they'd rather have flawed data from non-tech savvy viewers than more accurate data from people who know how to avoid the bs they sell.

That was a small part of the discussion, but so much content is going online, not just video recordings of the show, but supplementary content, FB fan groups, Twitter feeds, promotions and more. The article pointed out that Conan really did something somewhat revolutionary, in that he recognized that the old way of measuring a show's success was not necessarily the only way. What's more, it won't be effective at all as younger generations grow into target demographics, partly because they won't consume entertainment the way their parents and grandparents did.

As a result, TBS accepted a very unconventional partnership with Conan. Conan owns the show: the production, the writing, the content and its flow. TBS provides support for on air content, and they get a cut of the profit as a result. It's an arrangement that's different from what you find on traditional "late night" TV.

You can name call Leno all you want if it makes you feel good, but that's not going to lower his ratings or raise the ratings of Letterman or O'Brien enough to overtake Leno anytime soon.

It's not entirely dissimilar from Letterman's arrangement with CBS, although they restrict the content a bit more just because they're on broadcast (although strictly speaking, given the timeslot, they don't HAVE to).

There's a great article in the latest Fortune magazine. It makes the argument that ratings are comforting to network execs, but they're largely irrelevant for measuring viewership among young adults. It's worth a read.

Caring about ratings is an advertising thing, but advertisers have normal expectations when going to cable. Conan's ratings are probably high based on expectations, meaning his advertisers and by extension he are probably quite happy. Similarly, Jon Stewart's performance is quite good, despite not toppling any network show, and he's been on the air for 11 years. Also, I think both Conan and Stewart like the latitude to go a little bit "further" with their humor because they're on cable. At the end of the day, ratings are more about hubris than anything else, which is why Leno won't leave. Conan got the contract he wanted and gets to run the show that he wants to run, why should he care about rankings? I'm sure he cares about ratings in the context of what his advertisers expect, but not in the context of where he ranks vs. Leno and Letterman. It's the same deal with Letterman. Letterman gets paid more than Leno, and is widely recognized as the better show particularly come awards time and from critics, but he's not watched as much. Does he really care that housewives in Missouri think typos are funnier than real jokes? I doubt it.

As for FOX and ABC's interest, I think FOX had interest but it's affiliates were antsy because their business model is a little bit different than most networks. They don't really have a set "show" after 10pm, and never have, so a lot of their affiliates make a bundle with reruns. It's hard to keep them happy with any network show, which is kind of why they've stayed away. ABC already has Kimmel and Nightline, I'm not sure they wanted to scrap either one and both would be expensive to push that much later into the night to pay for Conan. Remember Conan wasn't looking for "a chance", he was looking to get paid. There's a huge difference between not having interest and having the financing not makes sense. I can't afford a BMW right now but it's not because I have no interest. It's because they're expensive and my car still runs ok.

I don't watch a show just because it's #1, just as I don't avoid a show just for it being in last place. Do you? Also notice there's not much relationship between ratings and quality.

That's fine and perfectly believable that Conan cared more about $ and freedom to run the show as he wants rather than get ratings. Kind of like Stern did when he left FM and went to satellite radio (to a degree). And maybe the way Eubanks felt when he left Leno and decided to resume his music career. That said, TBS wants ratings and I wonder what they were expecting and if they're happy or not, just like I'm not sure if Sirius got their money's worth out with Stern's huge contract.

Of course I don't watch shows just b/c they're #1. I watch for what I enjoy and consider entertaining. In late night's case, I happen to enjoy Leno's show, which BTW is #1 in its segment. Just a fact, that's all. The Leno haters can continue dissing him and his fans.

Considering he's already toppled Stewart/Colbert, and is outperforming what Lopez did in the slot, he's certainly a success. Does it cover the cost to get him? I don't know what they're internal benchmarks were, or how anyone could possibly know unless they were on the inside, but generally speaking Conan's show is very successful for a late night cable talk show.

The Stern/Sirius example is a great one, although to be fair Stern hitched his payout to his success, since much of it was stock related. Conan got far less money than Stern but also took far less risk.

Of course you do. Leno has a lame monologue, as the weak response from the audience indicates (and the studio audience microphones are turned way up), his bits are so bad they're considered generic by other comedians and comedy writers (see the Spike Ferestein summary of how to do a remote), and Jimmy Fallon does games much better. As I've said before, it would be one thing for Leno to do such a bad show if he was just a hack comedian, but he's one of the best comedians ever. Ferguson and Kimmel do much better shows.

That's cool that O'Brien is outperforming others in that slot on cable, but I'm sure TBS expected that when they gave him that fat contract. But I don't know if he's met their expectations. Yeah, Stern did have much of his compensation tied to Sirius' stock, but I also recall he got a crapload of $ as well.

Late Night with Jimmy Fallon has been renewed for a third season.

Fallon was quietly re-signed earlier this year with a deal that extends his gig on the late-night series through early 2012. (Fallon's pickups are "off cycle" since he took over the show midseason in 2009.)

The move keeps NBC's ratings-topping late-night lineup intact for next season: The network recently renewed Last Call with Carson Daly, while Jay Leno will continue on The Tonight Show.

Fallon grew his ratings 16 percent this year to average 1.8 million viewers, while holding steady with a 0.6 in the adult demo. Plus, he's widened his lead in both measures over rival CBS' The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson. And Fallon's hosting of the Emmy Awards back in August delivered the show's biggest viewership since 2006 — who can forget that Glee-inspired cold open: