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Forum Thread

Is my kid crazy?

2,786 1,084 August 3, 2010 at 05:04 PM in Chat
I am at the end of my rope with my 4.5 year old's screaming, kicking, hitting temper tantrums. She's an only child and is so sweet most of the time but when she gets really mad, she's awful. Like head spinning, pea soup awful. I know that it is mostly (if not all) our fault and we need to change out behaviors, too. We aren't consistent and have been too "go with the flow." I try to reason with her but it clearly isn't working. Time out use to work somewhat when she was little but she's old enough to realize that I can't keep her there unless I were to physically force her. It has become a power struggle and I can tell she is doing things to push my buttons.

Is this normal for her age? Any suggestions for books? Does she need therapy? I think I do....

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Joined Nov 2003
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HeyLookItsMe
08-03-2010 at 07:44 PM.
08-03-2010 at 07:44 PM.
Quote from ZoeBoe'smom :
So you think 100% of a 4 year old's behavior is appropriate for that age? Because I can tell you that I am 31 and I sometimes forget my age and revert to inappropriate behavior. Obviously, I am arguing with a child. You don't think that kids sometimes revert to younger, inappropriate behavior? Asking a young child to act like a big girl isn't asking her to grow up to fast. I am asking her to stop crying, pointing, and grunting and use words to express what she wants or needs.
I didnt say that its appropriate for adults but thats the point of parenting.... to teach the child what is appropriate... i would say that a lot of it is expected, common, and natural... a 4 y/o doesnt know appropriate so yes they will take of their clothes in a store, their will play with their privates, they will pick their nose, they will foul themselves....

what i am trying to express and admittedly feel i am doing so badly is that I feel by saying things like "grow up" "is that what big boys do" etc institutes this illogical superiority of age and moves the behavior to something the child cant control, their age. It also creates this false idea that crying is bad. I am sure there are days when you cry because being a parents, hell even simply living, is stressful and difficult. Crying or having a bad day isnt a horrible thing and its ok to "act out" in a responsible manner....

Now while i can expect an adult to understand and differentiate when and how its appropriate to act out cry, whatever, i dont think a child can. I guess overall i think its a dis-service to try and continue this idea that "big girls dont cry" [youtube.com]
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.teri.
08-03-2010 at 07:48 PM.
08-03-2010 at 07:48 PM.
I disagree. I don't think throwing major temper tantrums in public is normal for a 4.5 year old.
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Original Poster
ZoeBoe'smom
08-03-2010 at 07:49 PM.
08-03-2010 at 07:49 PM.
Quote from HeyLookItsMe :
I didnt say that its appropriate for adults but thats the point of parenting.... to teach the child what is appropriate... i would say that a lot of it is expected, common, and natural... a 4 y/o doesnt know appropriate so yes they will take of their clothes in a store, their will play with their privates, they will pick their nose, they will foul themselves....

what i am trying to express and admittedly feel i am doing so badly is that I feel by saying things like "grow up" "is that what big boys do" etc institutes this illogical superiority of age and moves the behavior to something the child cant control, their age. It also creates this false idea that crying is bad. I am sure there are days when you cry because being a parents, hell even simply living, is stressful and difficult. Crying or having a bad day isnt a horrible thing and its ok to "act out" in a responsible manner....

Now while i can expect an adult to understand and differentiate when and how its appropriate to act out cry, whatever, i dont think a child can. I guess overall i think its a dis-service to try and continue this idea that "big girls dont cry" [youtube.com]
I agree with some of what you are trying to say. I do let her know that it is okay to get angry, it is okay to be disappointed, or sad. It is okay to cry. But there is an appropriate way to express it and screaming and kicking me isn't it.
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SlickChik
08-03-2010 at 07:51 PM.
08-03-2010 at 07:51 PM.
Quote from .teri. :
I disagree. I don't think throwing major temper tantrums in public is normal for a 4.5 year old.
Iagree
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Joined Mar 2007
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.teri.
08-03-2010 at 07:56 PM.
08-03-2010 at 07:56 PM.
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TheWoman
08-03-2010 at 08:00 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:00 PM.
Quote from dreemedayze :
One of the best bits of advice I ever received was to not be afraid to walk out of the store.

If she throws a fit, calmly explain that you will leave immediately if the behavior doesn't stop. When it doesn't stop, LEAVE THE STORE.

The first time I had to do this I was so so so angry. I just wanted to finish my shopping. I didn't want to leave and WHY couldn't he just behave? Well, because there were no consequences to his actions.

Simple rule.

throw a fit > we leave the store

Immediately.
Most of my kids hate shopping. For them leaving the store would be a reward for bad behavior. When they would act up I would tell them that they need to learn to behave in a store so after this store we were going to another and another and another until they show me that they can behave. I very rarely even had to go to one extra store.
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Original Poster
ZoeBoe'smom
08-03-2010 at 08:02 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:02 PM.
Quote from TheWoman :
Most of my kids hate shopping. For them leaving the store would be a reward for bad behavior. When they would act up I would tell them that they need to learn to behave in a store so after this store we were going to another and another and another until they show me that they can behave. I very rarely even had to go to one extra store.
LOL, that's funny. She does beg to go home if we stop at more than one store. She does NOT like running errands with me.
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luckykitti
08-03-2010 at 08:03 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:03 PM.
Quote from ZoeBoe'smom :
I agree with some of what you are trying to say. I do let her know that it is okay to get angry, it is okay to be disappointed, or sad. It is okay to cry. But there is an appropriate way to express it and screaming and kicking me isn't it.
nicely articulated Smilie
Quote from TheWoman :
Most of my kids hate shopping. For them leaving the store would be a reward for bad behavior. When they would act up I would tell them that they need to learn to behave in a store so after this store we were going to another and another and another until they show me that they can behave. I very rarely even had to go to one extra store.
Roll I hated shopping too that would be a huge reward
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.teri.
08-03-2010 at 08:08 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:08 PM.
Do you take her with you to alot of different stores? Could it be that she is tired?
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Beartrkkr
08-03-2010 at 08:09 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:09 PM.
http://www.rosemond.com/

Rosemond: Stopping temper tantrums is like expelling demons
Saturday, June 12, 2010

A concerned mother told me her 6-year-old daughter still threw tantrums nearly every day, during which she screamed, produced copious tears and performed various contortions, often losing her balance and falling to the ground where she would writhe as if possessed by demons. In fact, the parents sometimes wondered if an exorcism might be appropriate. These tantrums occurred when she didnt get her way, I told her.

She stared at me for several seconds, then said, Someone told me she might be bipolar.

All toddlers are bipolar.

But shes not a toddler.

Yes she is, I said. Shes a toddler in a 6-year-old body. Toddlers believe that what they want, they deserve to have. Your daughter believes that. Shes stuck in toddlerhood.

This little girls mother was convinced that her daughters tantrums were indication of either some unresolved psychological issue or a biochemical imbalance. (Note: Contrary to common belief, the concept of a biochemical imbalance is completely theoretical. No one has proven that such a brain state exists, and one leading psychiatrist has admitted it is nothing but a useful metaphor.) I proposed a developmental explanation. Tantrums are typical of toddlers. Before the Big Wet Blanket of Psychobabble was thrown over parents common sense, tantrums were rare after the third birthday. A child who throws tantrums after their third birthday still believes what toddlers believe: she is the Almighty I Am. Like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, its all about her.

Giving up that fantasy is what growing up is all about. It is the hump that separates toddlerhood from creative childhood. The so-called terrible twos are all about the psychic pain the child experiences as he reluctantly lets go of the delusion that he is Emperor of the Universe. The parents task is to do all they can to shorten the duration of said pain as much as possible. Unfortunately, todays parents try to lessen the pain, in the course of which it lasts much longer than it should. Such was the case with the parents in question. In the course of trying to make their daughter happy, they had delayed her ability to take responsibility for her own happiness.

At my recommendation, the parents told their daughter that theyd seen a television show in which a famous doctor had talked about children who still throw tantrums at age 7. He had said that such children arent getting enough sleep; that they should be put to bed right after supper, but no later than 6:30 p.m., until the tantrums stopped completely for three weeks. If, during the three weeks, the child threw a tantrum, even a little one, the three weeks had to start over the next day.

The exorcism took six weeks, during which time the three-week cure started over seven times, mostly in weeks one and two. Finally, the little girl expelled her demons. And she is much happier today than she ever was when her parents were trying their best to make her happy.



Family psychologist John Rosemond answers parents questions on his website at www.rosemond.com.
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setsail
08-03-2010 at 08:13 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:13 PM.
Quote from ZoeBoe'smom :
We know. Trust, me know! We have said more than once that she is the monster we created! I just keep thinking that if I can make her understand.....but that's not happening so I know my approach isn't working.
There can be two sides to this so don't be so hard on yourself. You can recognize where you might have been able to make a better choice, and know how to do so in the future.

Something that helped me was to find each child's currency, what motivates them the most. For some it's actually money, other kids might respond to praise, trips to the library, etc. Once you find what motivates her, you can use that as positive reinforcement. Yes that is just bribery under a pretty name but it's like all habits, once it's changed to a better, more socially acceptable habit, things will be easier.

*If* you find that you and your SO have made honest efforts to be consistent about how to handle her behaviors, say 6 months or so, and you aren't noticing any changes and/or there are other issues that cause concern, maybe it's something that is beyond her control. It's a very small chance but always a chance that a child can have underlying issues, is developing at HER own pace and what she does is normal for HER developmental stage. I'm not saying inappropriate behavior is ok but that sometimes there can be something contributing to that behavior.

* had to put in my plug for possible causes. As a parent of children with special needs, I've seen lots of reasons why a child that seemingly *should* be able to do something, understand something, but can't. And it's not always something they have control over so punishment is ineffective and inappropriate.

eta something else to consider- does she sleep well, or does she snore? Sleepwalk? Any food or other allergies? There are so many things that can make a child act out, not all are simply willfulness on the part of the child. Also, I agree with TheWoman, removing a child from a store seems like you are doing everyone a favor but in the end the child is manipulating you. She knows what buttons to push.

Good luck!
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Last edited by setsail August 3, 2010 at 08:16 PM.
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Iaaaiws
08-03-2010 at 08:13 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:13 PM.
Quote from ZoeBoe'smom :
Any suggestions for books?
Be very selective when picking out books to deal with problems such as these. Some can end up causing more problems than already exist.

For example, stay away from any hard cover book. When you smack the kid with a hard cover book there is too much potential to leave a bruise or other mark which is never a good idea.

Also, too small of a book isn't good. Better to have one that is at least 10 or 11 inches of height. That way not as much effort is exerted and you can take advantage of the flex in creating a whipping action as the book flexes.

The paper makes a difference as well. Avoid the soft recycled type paper although it is acceptable if there isn't an alternative. The shiny white paper allows the air between the pages to be forced out more rapidly creating that explosive bullwhip type "snap" sound on impact that can be very intimidating to a frightened kid.

A little bit of research and practice hits with varying types of books can yield some very satisfying results.
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jenni.
08-03-2010 at 08:16 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:16 PM.
Quote from Tacoma :
IMO ...... Stop what you are doing, stop the car, pull into a parking lot, etc. and address the situation immediately. Take the child to the restroom, outside the building or whatever ...... just deal with it immediately before it escalates and gets "out of control". If the child refuses to accept "no" means "no" after your preliminary steps, turn around, go home, and then escalate the punishment until they change their attitude and behavior.
Iagree

Quote from ZoeBoe'smom :
Maybe "because I said so" is a sufficient answer.
It certainly is.

Quote from metoday :
I was honestly shocked no one said it before you. laugh out loud Especially Mark. I thought for sure he'd have said it.
laugh out loud In reality (though I didn't think she'd be open to it) if mine don't/didn't respond to punishment, then they got a pop on the butt. I don't spank them often, but they sure know I will and they don't DARE act up like that.

Quote from damsel. :
I think telling a child to act like a big kid is perfectly acceptable.
That's how I got mine potty trained. Roll They were dying to be "big boys".

Quote from .teri. :
I disagree. I don't think throwing major temper tantrums in public is normal for a 4.5 year old.
Iagree I think it's normal to have tantrums, but not big blow outs in public. Mine have NEVER done that, thank God.
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pictureframes
08-03-2010 at 08:48 PM.
08-03-2010 at 08:48 PM.
Quote from .teri. :
1-2-3 Magic [parentmagicstore.com]
i agree. we got 123 magic when the kids were 2&3. my son was hyperactive and WOW this book helped us so much. it taught me how to parent and not be a wimp. whipped them into shape in no time. still works now that they're older.
we went somewhere today and they were running. i told my son, he was on 2 and if either ran again we were leaving Coverlaugh he stopped DD from running cuz i meant bussiness. i didnt have to raise my voice, get mad or make a scene Smilie i highly recommend it.
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iconian | Staff
08-03-2010 at 09:05 PM.
08-03-2010 at 09:05 PM.
If i pulled that, my ass would be beat til it was red. Sometimes I hate American laws. Yes, they have their places to protect the kids, belting a kid is well worth it, I know it worked on me!
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