Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe

Ah, like S_nt_, or The _aster B_nny?

Quick question. But I thought the title meant this thread was intended only for people who were NOT religious. So why so many religious people posting? I'm not trying to be rude, but just curious. Because I don't understand how someone can discuss their feelings of non-religion with religious people Just wondering the intent of this thread, because I see it going downhill fast. You can't have 2 different religious believers/non-believers in a thread without an argument breaking out.
Just wondering, because I for one will not discuss my opinions about religion with highly religious people for this reason. I personally don't want to hear their side or be made to feel like they know better and the rest of us go to hell. Like I said just curious to the threads intentions.

Ah, like S_nt_, or The _aster B_nny?

1. it appears you are suggesting that g_d thrives to bask in how people glorify and whorship him. It sounds to me like it is an extremely negative religion meant to get down about your ownself. Seriously ponder that...The immense about of time someone puts into education, trial and error, life experiences and all you want to do is attribute that to g_d.

2. circular reasoning

3. g_d did not teach the professors anything. in fact everything we have learned in the history of mankind is not because of g_d. We had to teach ourselves to communicate, to write language, develop thoughts from an idea to something that could be read or heard.

4. so i suppose g_d picks all the lottery winners as well.

5. evidently it isn't so staggaring as you are still here. Apparently there must have been something physically different in your situation because had you had the same situation as others you would have not been here. It appears that you have done research as to how slim your chance was but there was something different about your situation physically to attribute to you still being alive. Do you think g_d was with the others that have perished in a similar situation? If g_d can interfere with daily life then we clearly do not have free will as so many of the christians state when it comes to moral issues...you cannot have it both ways. Either g_d interferes or he doesn't...it is mutually exclusive.


as for no g_d...it used to emphasize the non-existence...much like your capitalization is used to emphasize the existence of an entity.

Quick question. But I thought the title meant this thread was intended only for people who were NOT religious. So why so many religious people posting? I'm not trying to be rude, but just curious. Because I don't understand how someone can discuss their feelings of non-religion with religious people Just wondering the intent of this thread, because I see it going downhill fast. You can't have 2 different religious believers/non-believers in a thread without an argument breaking out.
Just wondering, because I for one will not discuss my opinions about religion with highly religious people for this reason. I personally don't want to hear their side or be made to feel like they know better and the rest of us go to hell. Like I said just curious to the threads intentions.



Iconian, did you make this thread for people to see both sides or just for non-believers to discuss their reasons..ect...sorry I'm just confused here.

Quick question. But I thought the title meant this thread was intended only for people who were NOT religious. So why so many religious people posting? I'm not trying to be rude, but just curious. Because I don't understand how someone can discuss their feelings of non-religion with religious people Just wondering the intent of this thread, because I see it going downhill fast. You can't have 2 different religious believers/non-believers in a thread without an argument breaking out.
Just wondering, because I for one will not discuss my opinions about religion with highly religious people for this reason. I personally don't want to hear their side or be made to feel like they know better and the rest of us go to hell. Like I said just curious to the threads intentions.



Iconian, did you make this thread for people to see both sides or just for non-believers to discuss their reasons..ect...sorry I'm just confused here.

I lost you all on page 5.

I absolutely know God exists, beyond the shadow of a doubt, especially after the miracle that saved my life in June. In addition to the thousands of miracles strung together to save my life (when almost everyone else with my condition dies in a matter of minutes from the same thing - ruptured aorta - where I survived for over an hour), even the name of my surgeon (Gabriel) let's me know that God was in control of my situation. There were so many other miracles, that's just one.

For this reason, I wouldn't read this thread. Most people who would wish for an argument on the topic have already hardened their minds and hearts and will not change them.

It is beyond me how someone can understand science and not believe in God. Just understanding the enzyme (how without just one enzyme, an entire body does not function, and yet the body is loaded with enzymes, each with a specific and unique function) should be enough to convince anyone of divine/intelligent design.

It's ok...

That's what God whispers in my head sometimes

you are not being rude but what is the point of sitting down and circle jerking each other. what's the point of debating if everyone agrees. I enjoy stimulating conversation...most of the people on here haven't done what you have accused them of. Also I believe you are doing a disservice to yourself by not debating with these people.

DA: If the person who saved slickkitty wasn't there, another doctor would have been. He might not have been the top rated surgeon in the country, but he might have done an OK job and she still would have lived. We'll never know.

Well, according to the surgeons I have seen here, at Georgetown, and the top-rated aortic surgeon in Pennsylvania, that is not the case. The surgeon in PA said, and I quote, "I have killed every patient with Ehlers-Danlos I've ever touched. You are a walking miracle." That's no joke. He told me that he did not believe he could have saved my life. My mother-in-law was floored by that statement, but I've heard similar statements before. He also told me that I've already outlived my life-expectancy (which is possible...though, I'm not quite convinced...technically, the books say so).
My regular vascular surgeon - Top in his field at Georgetown (that I only have now that I know the true gravity of my condition) told me that he did not believe that he could have saved my life in that particular emergency, because he would not have known the location of the aneurysm and would not have known about my condition beforehand. He thinks he probably could now (I still have another aortic dilitation/pre-aneurysm) IF I could get to him within the first 30 mins of rupture. In Italy, we didn't even call the ambulance for 30 mins, because we didn't understand what was happening. We thought I had a kidney stone. The surgeon here (in my location) says that he does not understand how that worked. I told him that I only recognized that it was serious when I lost my sight and my hearing. He got a shocked look on his face and said, "Do you know what that was?!" I said..."Yeah, shock." He said, "No. Death. You were dying."

I survived another 90 mins from that point to surgery and I regained conciousness for periods of time.

1. Not exclusively, but partially. I suppose it's His right, since He created a universe. I'd expect to be exalted, as well.
2. No, that reasoning isn't circular. Circular reasoning is supporting a statement with something other than a conclusion. You claimed that the surgeon may be gifted because of his genes. If I believe his genes are a product of God, that does not make the statement circular, it simply means that I agree with you, and I still consider my original statement correct.
3. (G__d gr__f it's d_ff_cult to _nderst_nd when you won't type c_mplete w_rds, but _'ll try this _ne.) I didn't say God taught any professor anything. I said God created the professors that taught the surgeon. I also said that he created the parents of those professors.
4. That's correct.
5. Yes, there was something different about my situation. It was a miracle. I've already said that. (More than once, I think.)

I don't feel that you really want to try to understand each other, so our conversation is complete, from my end. If I thought you were truly interested in what I had to say, I would continue, and if you truly are, I invite you to a private conversation. If we continue this here, we are just showing off (and I include myself in that). I'm not here to match wits with you in a public forum. If you really want to learn/discuss/engage, I'd be willing to talk to you privately, but if you want to argue (and I'm not suggesting that we're at that point yet, but I think we're approaching it), then I'd prefer to stop before we get there, and while we still have mutual respect.

Plus I do get argumentative and do not wish to see this thread get closed because some jackass like me.