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Brand New Unlocked Apple iPhone 12 64GB Black - $476

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Brand New Unlocked Apple iPhone 12 64GB Black - $476
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Joined Feb 2010
L10: Grand Master
> bubble2 7,265 Posts
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Mamiww6
05-31-2022 at 08:44 AM.
05-31-2022 at 08:44 AM.
Quote from vsauce :
Carrier locking phones should be illegal. You wouldn't buy a car that only works on specific roads

Only in America..
I don't have a problem with locking especially when there is subsidies involved. But it should be immediately unlocked after certain time period on network. There are billions of phones in the market currently which are locked to carriers, and this creates big ewaste
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Joined Feb 2010
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> bubble2 7,265 Posts
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Mamiww6
05-31-2022 at 08:48 AM.
05-31-2022 at 08:48 AM.
Quote from weezedog :
I can also confirm the phone is a US Reseller Flex Policy, as my phone just arrived today and I was able to run the IMEI. I plan on using my GF's T-Mobile sim to activate then use my Metro sim to run the phone, and I'll go through T-Force or an unlock service to unlock it eventually. But the phone will work fine with whatever sim you first insert into it. Blame really falls on Apple for being such an anti-consumer friendly company, you don't see this with Android phones, they are either locked or unlocked, no inbetween like Schrodinger's iPhone here.
This has nothing with Apple or Android locking or not locking phones. Blame the seller for advertising it as unlocked. Apple creates Us Flex selling program to make it easy for retailers like Best Buy, Walmart and Target. It's one phone model and can be sold to any carrier. You are more than welcome to buy it from Apple directly for full MSRP.

And no, I am not defending Apple. I am well aware of their monopoly in iOS and it's ecosystem gang and practices.
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Joined Jun 2007
L2: Beginner
> bubble2 39 Posts
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weezedog
05-31-2022 at 09:06 AM.
05-31-2022 at 09:06 AM.
Quote from Mamiww6 :
This has nothing with Apple or Android locking or not locking phones. Blame the seller for advertising it as unlocked. Apple creates Us Flex selling program to make it easy for retailers like Best Buy, Walmart and Target. It's one phone model and can be sold to any carrier. You are more than welcome to buy it from Apple directly for full MSRP.

And no, I am not defending Apple. I am well aware of their monopoly in iOS and it's ecosystem gang and practices.
Technically the seller didn't advertise it as unlocked. No where in the ebay listing does it say the phone is unlocked. I knew going in that it was a US Reseller Flex policy phone based upon the item feedback on ebay with other buyers stating it was so. The phone will work out-of-the-box with any US carrier which is what I really cared about given it was $254 off of MSRP and will work with my carrier.

I think some of the confusion comes from terminology, flex policy phones are "universal" rather than "unlocked" but can give the appearance of being unlocked because they work with whatever the first sim is inserted. And I blame Apple for that confusion, as this flex policy only exists in Apple products and isn't as widely known.
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Last edited by weezedog May 31, 2022 at 09:13 AM.
Joined Feb 2010
I'm lichen these deals!
> bubble2 424 Posts
96 Reputation
smtelegadis
05-31-2022 at 11:45 AM.
05-31-2022 at 11:45 AM.
Quote from weezedog :
Technically the seller didn't advertise it as unlocked. No where in the ebay listing does it say the phone is unlocked. I knew going in that it was a US Reseller Flex policy phone based upon the item feedback on ebay with other buyers stating it was so. The phone will work out-of-the-box with any US carrier which is what I really cared about given it was $254 off of MSRP and will work with my carrier.

I think some of the confusion comes from terminology, flex policy phones are "universal" rather than "unlocked" but can give the appearance of being unlocked because they work with whatever the first sim is inserted. And I blame Apple for that confusion, as this flex policy only exists in Apple products and isn't as widely known.
The burden to disclose this information should not be on the consumer to bear. If the reseller was aware of this and neglects to disclose it then that is a borderline fraud situation as the device cannot be used as claimed. I contacted them and they assured me it was neither sim or carrier restricted. I do not disagree with the comment created by Apple about the confusion and if I did not have the protections of eBay, Paypal and my Amex CC I wouldn't have made the purchase. Where I do not agree is the lack of even minimal effort on VIPoutlet's part to vet their offerings and potentially avoid this colossal waste of time. I've had different but similar experience with Android Devices from Samsung and LG and that is why I am so careful when purchasing cell phones. That said the phone I received is SIM and flex locked so it's going back. I won't buy from VIPoutlet ever again. Their responses were inconsistent, incorrect, and thier sales protocol was irresponsible. Their las correspondence said they had no was of prequalifing the phone's status. If that is the case then it is not an unlocked New Phone but rather an Unopened Returned product and needs to be properly vetted prior to resale.
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Joined Jun 2007
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> bubble2 39 Posts
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weezedog
05-31-2022 at 12:23 PM.
05-31-2022 at 12:23 PM.
Quote from smtelegadis :
The burden to disclose this information should not be on the consumer to bear. If the reseller was aware of this and neglects to disclose it then that is a borderline fraud situation as the device cannot be used as claimed. I contacted them and they assured me it was neither sim or carrier restricted. I do not disagree with the comment created by Apple about the confusion and if I did not have the protections of eBay, Paypal and my Amex CC I wouldn't have made the purchase. Where I do not agree is the lack of even minimal effort on VIPoutlet's part to vet their offerings and potentially avoid this colossal waste of time. I've had different but similar experience with Android Devices from Samsung and LG and that is why I am so careful when purchasing cell phones. That said the phone I received is SIM and flex locked so it's going back. I won't buy from VIPoutlet ever again. Their responses were inconsistent, incorrect, and thier sales protocol was irresponsible. Their las correspondence said they had no was of prequalifing the phone's status. If that is the case then it is not an unlocked New Phone but rather an Unopened Returned product and needs to be properly vetted prior to resale.
In the realm of buying cell phones from unauthorized 3rd parties it's always Caveat Emptor: Let the Buyer Beware. Have to do your own homework and due diligence. Ask the seller for the IMEI number and check the phone prior to sale if concerned. Know how the manufacturer handles sim locking.
No one other than Apple sells completely brand new shrink wrapped iPhones unlocked. Every other source (AT&T, Verizon. Sprint, T-Mobile, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc) all have some form of sim lock. Unless the phone was purchased direct from Apple, or explicitly says it has been opened, activated, and then carrier unlocked, it will be sim locked some way. Apple just sucks when it comes to this, and it's because the carrier's want you to be locked to their network.
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Joined Feb 2010
I'm lichen these deals!
> bubble2 424 Posts
96 Reputation
smtelegadis
06-01-2022 at 12:30 AM.
06-01-2022 at 12:30 AM.
Quote from weezedog :
In the realm of buying cell phones from unauthorized 3rd parties it's always Caveat Emptor: Let the Buyer Beware. Have to do your own homework and due diligence. Ask the seller for the IMEI number and check the phone prior to sale if concerned. Know how the manufacturer handles sim locking.
No one other than Apple sells completely brand new shrink wrapped iPhones unlocked. Every other source (AT&T, Verizon. Sprint, T-Mobile, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc) all have some form of sim lock. Unless the phone was purchased direct from Apple, or explicitly says it has been opened, activated, and then carrier unlocked, it will be sim locked some way. Apple just sucks when it comes to this, and it's because the carrier's want you to be locked to their network.
I don't disagree with anything that you stated but there is a responsibility as a seller to represent your products in a transparent manner. Apple created this circumstance but the sellers of restricted devices are either unaware or apathetic to their condition.

If VIPoutlet was not aware of these conditions why and how should I as a consumer be responsible to perform that discovery. That is the nuance associated with my argument against the seller being responsible for disclosure. Since this is not a new policy from Apple with respect to cellular devices and cannot be the first time such confusion has arised.
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Joined Jun 2007
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> bubble2 39 Posts
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weezedog
06-01-2022 at 11:47 AM.
06-01-2022 at 11:47 AM.
Quote from smtelegadis :
I don't disagree with anything that you stated but there is a responsibility as a seller to represent your products in a transparent manner. Apple created this circumstance but the sellers of restricted devices are either unaware or apathetic to their condition.

If VIPoutlet was not aware of these conditions why and how should I as a consumer be responsible to perform that discovery. That is the nuance associated with my argument against the seller being responsible for disclosure. Since this is not a new policy from Apple with respect to cellular devices and cannot be the first time such confusion has arised.
When you walk into Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Target etc do you just take the word of the sales people or do you do your own research? Most sales people/sellers are morons and don't know the product. VIPOulet has 357,000 feedback, tens of thousands of sales per month. This is a large company selling in large volume (some people believe it's directly associated with Wal-Mart). They sell everything from cell phones, to air fryers, to plush toys. A mass seller Is probably not going to be knowledgable of very, very technical and complicated product details like sim locking.
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Joined Feb 2010
I'm lichen these deals!
> bubble2 424 Posts
96 Reputation
smtelegadis
06-02-2022 at 02:28 PM.
06-02-2022 at 02:28 PM.
Quote from weezedog :
When you walk into Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Target etc do you just take the word of the sales people or do you do your own research? Most sales people/sellers are morons and don't know the product. VIPOulet has 357,000 feedback, tens of thousands of sales per month. This is a large company selling in large volume (some people believe it's directly associated with Wal-Mart). They sell everything from cell phones, to air fryers, to plush toys. A mass seller Is probably not going to be knowledgable of very, very technical and complicated product details like sim locking.
I don't typically buy electronics from retail locations and haven't made an impulse purchase of any electronics no less a cell phone in decades. So yes I do research but this experience with respect to iphones and us flex Policy while new to me is not new to the industry and definitely not to VIPoutlet. Not all sales people are morons and I don't think Apple is exclusively to blame but I don't think VIPoutlet gets a pass because they also sell air fryers and plush toys. I posted a follow up so that anyone else having a similar experience has foreknowledge as I haven't bought an iPhone outside of the apple store or a subsidized one from a carrier since the iPhone 6s. I may be in the minority but others in this thread have stated they were not aware as well.
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Joined May 2022
New User
> bubble2 2 Posts
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WittyName9592
06-06-2022 at 11:03 PM.
06-06-2022 at 11:03 PM.
shoot... Just I got mine and I realized it is under us reseller flex policy. Thing is, I'm in overseas.. I have att sim card(not on the service) so I could pass the activation process but now it says the device is locked to att and my local sim card is not working. I don't wanna spend extra money to activate my att simcard to unlock it so I bought unlock service on ebay. let's see how it goes...
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Joined May 2022
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> bubble2 2 Posts
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WittyName9592
06-06-2022 at 11:13 PM.
06-06-2022 at 11:13 PM.
Anybody tried AT&T PREPAID sim to unlock? I was told att postpaid sim will unlock immediately but prepaid needs 6 months active to unlock. I'm in the other country and I can get att prepaid sim here but don't wanna take any chances to lock it for 6 months.
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Joined Aug 2014
L4: Apprentice
> bubble2 415 Posts
188 Reputation
RoyalS
06-08-2022 at 02:07 PM.
06-08-2022 at 02:07 PM.
Quote from WittyName9592 :
Anybody tried AT&T PREPAID sim to unlock? I was told att postpaid sim will unlock immediately but prepaid needs 6 months active to unlock. I'm in the other country and I can get att prepaid sim here but don't wanna take any chances to lock it for 6 months.
I just got it unlocked via AT&T unlock service. When i requested the unlock there is an option for non-ATT customer. I have AT&T postpaid so i cannot tell you about the prepaid unlock service. You can buy unlock service from eBay for a $1.00 and its the same process having an AT&T postpaid account. hope this helps
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