Let me start by saying Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles are not for everybody. Being that H2 fueling stations are limited, it's really only feasible in the LA / SF area.
YMMV but see below for the breakdown and explanation transcribed from u/acetech09 on Reddit
I bought one of those dirt cheap Toyota Mirais - still waiting for the catch
I have a 70 mile round-trip commute, and have been casually e-shopping for an electric or hybrid commuter car. But I never found something that that was a) well-priced, b) a worthwhile quality-of-life improvement over my current daily, and 3) charging an EV where I live is possible, but annoying.
My current daily is a 2020 MB Metris cargo van. And while I love it as a hobby equipment hauler, it's just an okay daily. Somewhat noisy, and base model so zero creature comforts to speak of.
Enter this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...after_tax/
I was intrigued enough to start doing the math and looked into the usability.
8 hours later, I had bought one.
Here's my review of the out-the-door numbers, and a lightweight review of the car from a performance-loving car nerd.
The math with real numbers from my sales agreement:
(edited, changed pricing from monthly to absolute to make it clearer)$50,408.00 (Sale price, $2k under sticker)
+ $5,200 (CA sales tax and registration)
- $20,000 (Cash discount from Toyota corporate)
= $35,608.00 (This is what I financed at 0% APR, 72 months, no fees at all)
- $4,500 (CA tax credit)
- $8,000 (Federal tax credit)
=
$23,108.00 Effective post-tax vehicle price
The vehicle price comes out to
$23,108. BUT, this goes further because of the
complimentary $15,000 fuel card, which is good for about 50,000 miles or 6 years.
So, with that card, it makes sense to compare with other cars by including 50,000 miles of fuel.
Mirai: $23,108 base, free fuel 30mpg gas car: $23,108 base
- $7,500 fuel
= $15,608 out-the-door equivalent 3.4 mi/kwh elec: $23,108 base
- $4,000 fuel
= $19,000 out-the-door equivalent
If you compare it with $15-19k gas/EV equivalent, those vehicles are probably going to be used, with limited warranty remaining. So, there is additional unrealized operating savings with the Mirai as well.
Insurance and registration are about $100/mo for me. This is decently lower than other $50k luxury brands (per my policy at least), but I'm not including it since it's different for everyone.
After the fuel card runs out, the Mirai starts to get more expensive again due to the higher cost of H2 fuel over gas. However, I doubt I'm going to keep the car once the fuel card runs out. And, nobody knows what the depreciation will be like, so I'm keeping it out of this calculation.
That's $15k-$19k, acetech09. Not a 'free car' like some people were saying.
Yes, true. But here's the punchline.
This car is really freaking nice.
It's not 'dirt-cheap' compared to a used commute econobox, but it's
radically cheaper than any other Lexus-like, freeway-autonomous, tech-laden, fully featured and warrantied mid-size sedan.
For the price of
this [craigslist.org], you get
this [imgur.com].
Sure, it's cheap, but, how is it?
You might be a skeptic like me and think it's a $25k corolla with a $25k water-maker under the hood. But it's not. This is a proper, no-compromise luxury sedan. It almost directly compares with a top-spec, $40-45k Avalon, at least. Reportedly, this car was originally designed to be a Lexus, but brand politics happened.
- Spacious, comfy, solid, quiet, cruises like a heavy full-size.
- Radar cruise control, lane following, full autonomy/driver assist package with granular settings. Power everything. Sound isn't audiophile-tier but is about as good as a production car gets.
- Bird's eye view/360 degree cameras, pretty excellent for checking your parking since the visibility is as poor as every other modern car.
- Not exciting to drive, but it's still extremely confident and flat in corners. The 0-60 is 'slow', but it's totally sufficient, and the electric instant-torque makes it capable of cutting through whatever commute conditions you need it to even with lower HP numbers.
- Huge dash screen with android auto/carplay.
- A really handy wireless phone charging pad in the center console.
- The digital instrument cluster display was easy enough to configure and interpret - i'm a big analog dial guy but this one took almost no time to get used to, and feels totally normal now.
- It has a 'pee' button. Seriously. The car auto-dumps the water exhaust when driving, and during shutdown as well - which could dump a lot of water on your garage floor. So you can manually push a button and have the car pee in your driveway before you pull it into your garage.
Any negatives?
Not really. It's not a drivers car of course, but it's a solid premium Toyota and delivers exactly what you expect and want. Really, just minor nitpicks:
- Wireless android auto would be nice, to synergize with the wireless charge pad.
- There isn't multi-user seat memory. That's, bafflingly, part of the +$15k premium trim which is otherwise not really worth it.
- No spare tire, just fix-a-flat and a compressor. Not a huge issue if you're commuting this in the urban areas it's mostly limited to.
- No volume knob on the infotainment, you have to button spam.
The elephant in the room, Hydrogen stations:
Of course, the 'catch' is that you can only drive this car in the bay area and parts of LA. However, there are a lot of people in both those areas who only use their car for commutes and local city-errands. Within these markets, it's still pretty insane that you can get them that cheap - it's not like I'm the only guy who wants one.
Toyota does also give 21 complimentary gas-car rental days to the purchaser, like electric car sellers do, so people can take road trips if needed. 21 days isn't a *lot* but it's decent value.
At the pumps, it's almost exactly like filling up a normal gas car, sometimes there's a 1-2 car wait but they fill fast and it's not a big deal.
Conclusion:
I check all the boxes: lives and commutes near hydrogen stations, can take advantage of the tax credits, and has another vehicle for trips outside the hydrogen network.
Only time will tell if this thing gives me a bunch of mechanical problems, or hydrogen balloons in price, or some other unknown. But for now, I think it'll work out great.
Is hydrogen the future? Probably not. The only clear benefit of fuel cell vehicles over battery electrics is refuel time, at significant complexity and material costs. But I'm sure hydrogen stations will be around as long as this vehicle lasts. But if I ever replace it, it'll probably be electric.
Station map for your area (California only):
https://cafcp.org/stationmap
For Carpool Sticker information:
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/car...arpool.htm
California Clean Vehicle Rebate $4500 for Mirai
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en...e-vehicles
Note: Income cap does not apply for Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
! Source [cleanvehiclerebate.org]
Federal Tax credit $8,000 info
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/350
Note: this is a tax credit, applied when filling out tax return for 2021)
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...ta_mirais/
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"The income cap applies for all eligible vehicle types except fuel-cell electric vehicles."
Source: cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/requirements/1470
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Yes, Superchargers are about the same price as gas, usually a little cheaper though. Unfortunately, for people without home or free work charging, driving an EV isn't as cheap.
DMed you.
Price breakdown: The car we got is XLE + advance tech package with MSRP 52.3k, negotiated 5k off MSRP. This comes to 47.3k + tax minus 20k Toyota rebate and took advantage of the 0% 72month finance offer. With both 8k Fed tax credit and 4.5k CA rebate accounted for, our out the door price is about $19.5k. In addition, we received the 15k fuel card for 6 years (purchase) and 21 free rental days within 3 year. The car comes with 3 years/35000 miles of ToyotaCare maintenance for free.
Use case analysis: The car will be used mainly for work commute and occasional day trips to Napa or Big Sur, and we have a Tesla plus a gas car in the household. Also, there are 3 hydrogen stations within 5 miles with couple more in permit phase. The nearest station is
What would be the benefit of putting down a large initial payment if there's 0% APR (and I'm assuming there must be some type of auto-pay mechanism involved so we don't have to remember due dates)?
Thank you.
normally if that time is less than the term on the loan (my case) is either not approved (unless big banks) or they will ask for a larger down payment / bigger monthly payments
For our case, OTD price is 33k. 8k down and 25k on 0% loan for 72 months, comes to 347 monthly payment.
Time to get out of Cali...
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The distance between the Mission Hills station and Coalinga is 177 miles and Coalinga to San Ramon is 175 miles so it should be no trouble.
I have no idea the cost per mile driven to produce hydrogen, but electric is relatively cheap... and both still require the so called fossil fuels intended to replace. There are so many wind generators broken and shut down across the country, without further taxpayer funding, they are just part of the landscape. Solar is great, but got to have sun... and none at night when people are charging their cars.
The charging problem will be solved when autonomous driving reaches fruition in the end charging will be less time than what the driver needs for their rest period
Meanwhile, $200 Million in taxpayer dollars have went towards the few stations to supply fuel for the hydrogen cars in just California..... that will require a minimum of $10 Billion for just the major cities. There is a reason why they are trying to 'give' these cars away..... and no guarantee you can find the fuel in the coming future.
Meanwhile, as a fuel, electric is much more cost effective if you charge at home. If at a charging station, it is at least double, that is still cheaper than hydrogen.
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big con is that the fueling takes a looooooooooooong time. I am not sure why but that is what I read in another forum. Could be that there is only 1 pump and it is always down or there might be a long line of people or ??????????