lol you're trying to justify that Tesla spends more on R&D when the refreshed models have nothing new, except they stripped more things off to save on cogs.
Why keep posting glaring untrue stuff my dude?
The S/X refresh vastly upgraded the interior and sound system.
It also significantly upgraded the motors and performance- especially the plaid.
It also significantly improved the upper end of the power curve- especially on the plaid.
It also upgraded the heating system to a heat pump.
It also upgraded the infotainment to a next-gen AMD Ryzen based unit
It also increased charging speed and reduced coefficient of drag
it also increased head and legroom, and added a rear display screen.
It also significantly improved sound deadening via added material and acoustic glass.
It was a pretty thorough refresh that added a lot
Likewise the 3 had a lot of changes, include improvements to existing systems (the suspension and headlights and wheels and aerodynamics) but ALSO had numerous parts and features added including noise reduction, improved stereo, vented front seats, and a rear infotainment display. The performance model in particular saw a number of additional new things added as well- with 30% more peak power, larger brakes, and for the first time on a 3- sport seats and an adaptive suspension. All adds for parts.
Quote
from JellyBellyMD
:
Don't forget to add $1K for home charger and installation.
If you drive more than average sure-- otherwise a normal wall socket is all you need to put back on the avg number of miles Americans drive in a day.
Quote
from Dr. J
:
Because I'm genuinely interested in the numbers, recently I compared a Rav4 and a MY, just because a Rav4 seems to be what many people compare the MY to (even though IMHO they aren't comparable) but anyway, name brand tires for a Rav4 are $809 installed. I forget the brand, but they weren't "General Tire" or some no-name crap. The MY? $1300.
This was already debunked in a previous thread. Directly to you. With a link to name brand tires for the Y comparable in price to the Rav4.
Further- I get the same # of miles on my EV as I did the Lexus it replaced-- the idea EVs burn tires much faster than a comparable ICE vehicle- unless you're a hyper aggressive driver, simply isn't so.
Why keep repeating untrue things?
Quote
from Dr. J
:
By the time you're on your 3rd purchased set around 115k, the ICE will be just 30% into its second purchased set.
Funny you run the tires (using dishonest pricing and dishonest wear measures) to 115k... but then you stop the OTHER maintenance costs at...well, let's see:
Quote
from Dr. J
:
In fact, I compared the cost to get to 100k
You stopped there because the next BIG batch of maintenance expenses come right after that number.
But ran the tires- specifically- to 115k.
Again this was called out, specifically to you, the last time you tried this misrepresentation of the cost comparison.
If you can't argue honestly why argue?
Quote
from 1jzgte
:
These EV guys have never crawled under any car. Obviously the suspension is completely advanced alien technology in an EV.
I've built/worked on a number of performance cars. Including Supras BTW.
Know what an EV never does? blow a head gasket.
Quote
from Ananke
:
Volvo will start selling XE30 in June, expected price after all credits around $25k. It's a competitor of Model Y. Not sure what is the quality etc. but regardless that they import from China, they also collect offsetting export credits as an American manufacturer, so the tariffs are effectively zero.
My point, US EVs at the moment are incredibly overpriced and there will be an imminent price correction.
So first- you mean the EX30.
Second- You are conflating two different things.
The $7500 IRA credit is not available on purchase of the EX30, because it's a Chinese made car with Chinese batteries.
Volvo can LEASE those cars (not sell them) and pocket the $7500 themselves- and could pass that savings on to the leasing party though.
The other item is the ~25% tariff of Chinese cars--- while it's true they can potentially offset that with export credits, they don't export THAT many cars-- so they won't be able to offset THAT many EX30s coming in.
if they plan to just sell a tiny # that'll work fine for them--- but then expect dealers to markup the cars like hell because they'll be scarce.
*** quick edit here-- it just got a lot worse for Volvo-
The S/X refresh vastly upgraded the interior and sound system.
It also significantly upgraded the motors and performance- especially the plaid.
It also significantly improved the upper end of the power curve- especially on the plaid.
It also upgraded the heating system to a heat pump.
It also upgraded the infotainment to a next-gen AMD Ryzen based unit
It also increased charging speed and reduced coefficient of drag
it also increased head and legroom, and added a rear display screen.
It also significantly improved sound deadening via added material and acoustic glass.
It was a pretty thorough refresh that added a lot
Likewise the 3 had a lot of changes, include improvements to existing systems (the suspension and headlights and wheels and aerodynamics) but ALSO had numerous parts and features added including noise reduction, improved stereo, vented front seats, and a rear infotainment display. The performance model in particular saw a number of additional new things added as well- with 30% more peak power, larger brakes, and for the first time on a 3- sport seats and an adaptive suspension. All adds for parts.
If you drive more than average sure-- otherwise a normal wall socket is all you need to put back on the avg number of miles Americans drive in a day.
This was already debunked in a previous thread. Directly to you. With a link to name brand tires for the Y comparable in price to the Rav4.
Further- I get the same # of miles on my EV as I did the Lexus it replaced-- the idea EVs burn tires much faster than a comparable ICE vehicle- unless you're a hyper aggressive driver, simply isn't so.
Why keep repeating untrue things?
Funny you run the tires (using dishonest pricing and dishonest wear measures) to 115k... but then you stop the OTHER maintenance costs at...well, let's see:
You stopped there because the next BIG batch of maintenance expenses come right after that number.
But ran the tires- specifically- to 115k.
Again this was called out, specifically to you, the last time you tried this misrepresentation of the cost comparison.
If you can't argue honestly why argue?
I've built/worked on a number of performance cars. Including Supras BTW.
Know what an EV never does? blow a head gasket.
So first- you mean the EX30.
Second- You are conflating two different things.
The $7500 IRA credit is not available on purchase of the EX30, because it's a Chinese made car with Chinese batteries.
Volvo can LEASE those cars (not sell them) and pocket the $7500 themselves- and could pass that savings on to the leasing party though.
The other item is the ~25% tariff of Chinese cars--- while it's true they can potentially offset that with export credits, they don't export THAT many cars-- so they won't be able to offset THAT many EX30s coming in.
if they plan to just sell a tiny # that'll work fine for them--- but then expect dealers to markup the cars like hell because they'll be scarce.
*** quick edit here-- it just got a lot worse for Volvo-
The tariffs on Chinese EVs are going up from ~25% to ~100%.
They can still offset that with their exports from the US.... but only at 1/4 the previous (already pretty low) volume.
All those "new features" on the refresh you mentioned are just upgrades of existing stuff that does not translate to "R&D". They were just outdated. The cars literally look 90% the same, like I mentioned to the regular consumer they all look the same.
To those who are interested, I've been doing some research on this model. There are mixed information about them being LFP batteries. Tesla has also removed the Fog Lights as well as half the speakers and the Sub in this model which was previously available on the RWD model.
To those who are interested, I've been doing some research on this model. There are mixed information about them being LFP batteries. Tesla has also removed the Fog Lights as well as half the speakers and the Sub in this model which was previously available on the RWD model.
Removing fog lights could be "fine" if the high beams are sufficient. Removing speakers is WILD, and if the actual sub got yoinked then shoot....that could be just pure awful.
How a car sounds is as important as how it drives. Not even talking about at a high volume but as a finished product. Pain is speakers that are tiny and you're cranking it up just to hear a track. Pleasure is having an adaptive system which you can keep at reasonable volumes and experience your music as it should be
The S/X refresh vastly upgraded the interior and sound system.
It also significantly upgraded the motors and performance- especially the plaid.
It also significantly improved the upper end of the power curve- especially on the plaid.
It also upgraded the heating system to a heat pump.
It also upgraded the infotainment to a next-gen AMD Ryzen based unit
It also increased charging speed and reduced coefficient of drag
it also increased head and legroom, and added a rear display screen.
It also significantly improved sound deadening via added material and acoustic glass.
It was a pretty thorough refresh that added a lot
Likewise the 3 had a lot of changes, include improvements to existing systems (the suspension and headlights and wheels and aerodynamics) but ALSO had numerous parts and features added including noise reduction, improved stereo, vented front seats, and a rear infotainment display. The performance model in particular saw a number of additional new things added as well- with 30% more peak power, larger brakes, and for the first time on a 3- sport seats and an adaptive suspension. All adds for parts.
If you drive more than average sure-- otherwise a normal wall socket is all you need to put back on the avg number of miles Americans drive in a day.
This was already debunked in a previous thread. Directly to you. With a link to name brand tires for the Y comparable in price to the Rav4.
Further- I get the same # of miles on my EV as I did the Lexus it replaced-- the idea EVs burn tires much faster than a comparable ICE vehicle- unless you're a hyper aggressive driver, simply isn't so.
Why keep repeating untrue things?
Funny you run the tires (using dishonest pricing and dishonest wear measures) to 115k... but then you stop the OTHER maintenance costs at...well, let's see:
You stopped there because the next BIG batch of maintenance expenses come right after that number.
But ran the tires- specifically- to 115k.
Again this was called out, specifically to you, the last time you tried this misrepresentation of the cost comparison.
If you can't argue honestly why argue?
I've built/worked on a number of performance cars. Including Supras BTW.
Know what an EV never does? blow a head gasket.
So first- you mean the EX30.
Second- You are conflating two different things.
The $7500 IRA credit is not available on purchase of the EX30, because it's a Chinese made car with Chinese batteries.
Volvo can LEASE those cars (not sell them) and pocket the $7500 themselves- and could pass that savings on to the leasing party though.
The other item is the ~25% tariff of Chinese cars--- while it's true they can potentially offset that with export credits, they don't export THAT many cars-- so they won't be able to offset THAT many EX30s coming in.
if they plan to just sell a tiny # that'll work fine for them--- but then expect dealers to markup the cars like hell because they'll be scarce.
*** quick edit here-- it just got a lot worse for Volvo-
To any "neutral" consumers out there, this is an issue for those who look online for information. Elon Musk has built a cult of personality (really all billionaires do) to an extreme fashion. A shrinking population of diehards will justify pretty much anything Musk or Tesla or Twitter does.
For them it's an emotional investment that they pump Tesla everywhere possible.
Quote
from Knightshade
:
Vented seats aren't new--- because the car already had seats?
An entire rear screen that didn't exist isn't new because a front screen existed?
An entire new suspension isn't new because it HAD a suspension before?
Acoustic glass isn't new because it HAD glass before?
Adding a third (and both the rears being ENTIRELY DIFFERENT designs) of motors to the S isn't new because it had "a" motor before?
Adding a heat pump isn't new because... it had heat I guess before?
Your argument keeps getting more desperate and ridiculous my dude.
Tesla's don't come with mobile chargers, do they? You have to buy them, right?
Have a Nice Day!
A mobile connector? No you'd need to buy that if you need one- it's $250 (rather than the $800+ some folks were quoting- one can only assume they meant also installing a 240v socket where none exists- but as I mention you don't really need that unless you drive significantly more than average day to day)
It comes with plugs for a normal 5-15 wall socket and a 14-50 240v socket by default... and for ~$35 you can buy a connector for tons of other sockets (like the kind an electric dryer might plug into)
EVs have been around long enough now though that many already have an EVSE, so they wouldn't even need that... (the car comes with a J1772 adapter, so if you own an EVSE for a previous generic car you're likely good to go with nothing else)
All those "new features" on the refresh you mentioned are just upgrades of existing stuff that does not translate to "R&D". They were just outdated. The cars literally look 90% the same, like I mentioned to the regular consumer they all look the same.
Pretty funny how infotainment system is being touted as an "upgrade" when they were forced to do a recall and replace them because of a design flaw with the eMMC chip.
But hey, it has new speakers.
Tesla is recalling 134,951 of its 2016–2018 Model X SUVs and 2012–2018 Model S sedans to replace an infotainment system processor which can wear out and cause a failure in the some of the functions in the center screen. The recall comes after the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) took the unusual step of asking Tesla in a letter to recall these vehicles; normally, automakers agree to a voluntary recall before NHTSA formally asks.
Good deal. Thanks op… financially speaking, the cost savings at 1% apr vs 7 % apr over 72 months will be more than double the discounts on the selling price of the Y at the end of q1 (7-8k savings vs 3-4k discounts)
Pack that in with rebates and the model y is on par/cheaper than many ice cross overs in the market today.
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or maybe they like getting on their hands and knees? :dunno:
or maybe they like getting on their hands and knees? :dunno:
How often do you need to get under the car to need a lift?
The S/X refresh vastly upgraded the interior and sound system.
It also significantly upgraded the motors and performance- especially the plaid.
It also significantly improved the upper end of the power curve- especially on the plaid.
It also upgraded the heating system to a heat pump.
It also upgraded the infotainment to a next-gen AMD Ryzen based unit
It also increased charging speed and reduced coefficient of drag
it also increased head and legroom, and added a rear display screen.
It also significantly improved sound deadening via added material and acoustic glass.
It was a pretty thorough refresh that added a lot
Likewise the 3 had a lot of changes, include improvements to existing systems (the suspension and headlights and wheels and aerodynamics) but ALSO had numerous parts and features added including noise reduction, improved stereo, vented front seats, and a rear infotainment display. The performance model in particular saw a number of additional new things added as well- with 30% more peak power, larger brakes, and for the first time on a 3- sport seats and an adaptive suspension. All adds for parts.
This was already debunked in a previous thread. Directly to you. With a link to name brand tires for the Y comparable in price to the Rav4.
Further- I get the same # of miles on my EV as I did the Lexus it replaced-- the idea EVs burn tires much faster than a comparable ICE vehicle- unless you're a hyper aggressive driver, simply isn't so.
Why keep repeating untrue things?
But ran the tires- specifically- to 115k.
Again this was called out, specifically to you, the last time you tried this misrepresentation of the cost comparison.
If you can't argue honestly why argue?
I've built/worked on a number of performance cars. Including Supras BTW.
Know what an EV never does? blow a head gasket.
My point, US EVs at the moment are incredibly overpriced and there will be an imminent price correction.
Second- You are conflating two different things.
The $7500 IRA credit is not available on purchase of the EX30, because it's a Chinese made car with Chinese batteries.
Volvo can LEASE those cars (not sell them) and pocket the $7500 themselves- and could pass that savings on to the leasing party though.
The other item is the ~25% tariff of Chinese cars--- while it's true they can potentially offset that with export credits, they don't export THAT many cars-- so they won't be able to offset THAT many EX30s coming in.
if they plan to just sell a tiny # that'll work fine for them--- but then expect dealers to markup the cars like hell because they'll be scarce.
*** quick edit here-- it just got a lot worse for Volvo-
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bide...inese-evs/
The tariffs on Chinese EVs are going up from ~25% to ~100%.
They can still offset that with their exports from the US.... but only at 1/4 the previous (already pretty low) volume.
The S/X refresh vastly upgraded the interior and sound system.
It also significantly upgraded the motors and performance- especially the plaid.
It also significantly improved the upper end of the power curve- especially on the plaid.
It also upgraded the heating system to a heat pump.
It also upgraded the infotainment to a next-gen AMD Ryzen based unit
It also increased charging speed and reduced coefficient of drag
it also increased head and legroom, and added a rear display screen.
It also significantly improved sound deadening via added material and acoustic glass.
It was a pretty thorough refresh that added a lot
Likewise the 3 had a lot of changes, include improvements to existing systems (the suspension and headlights and wheels and aerodynamics) but ALSO had numerous parts and features added including noise reduction, improved stereo, vented front seats, and a rear infotainment display. The performance model in particular saw a number of additional new things added as well- with 30% more peak power, larger brakes, and for the first time on a 3- sport seats and an adaptive suspension. All adds for parts.
If you drive more than average sure-- otherwise a normal wall socket is all you need to put back on the avg number of miles Americans drive in a day.
This was already debunked in a previous thread. Directly to you. With a link to name brand tires for the Y comparable in price to the Rav4.
Further- I get the same # of miles on my EV as I did the Lexus it replaced-- the idea EVs burn tires much faster than a comparable ICE vehicle- unless you're a hyper aggressive driver, simply isn't so.
Why keep repeating untrue things?
Funny you run the tires (using dishonest pricing and dishonest wear measures) to 115k... but then you stop the OTHER maintenance costs at...well, let's see:
You stopped there because the next BIG batch of maintenance expenses come right after that number.
But ran the tires- specifically- to 115k.
Again this was called out, specifically to you, the last time you tried this misrepresentation of the cost comparison.
If you can't argue honestly why argue?
I've built/worked on a number of performance cars. Including Supras BTW.
Know what an EV never does? blow a head gasket.
So first- you mean the EX30.
Second- You are conflating two different things.
The $7500 IRA credit is not available on purchase of the EX30, because it's a Chinese made car with Chinese batteries.
Volvo can LEASE those cars (not sell them) and pocket the $7500 themselves- and could pass that savings on to the leasing party though.
The other item is the ~25% tariff of Chinese cars--- while it's true they can potentially offset that with export credits, they don't export THAT many cars-- so they won't be able to offset THAT many EX30s coming in.
if they plan to just sell a tiny # that'll work fine for them--- but then expect dealers to markup the cars like hell because they'll be scarce.
*** quick edit here-- it just got a lot worse for Volvo-
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bide...inese-evs/ [cbsnews.com]
The tariffs on Chinese EVs are going up from ~25% to ~100%.
They can still offset that with their exports from the US.... but only at 1/4 the previous (already pretty low) volume.
An entire rear screen that didn't exist isn't new because a front screen existed?
An entire new suspension isn't new because it HAD a suspension before?
Acoustic glass isn't new because it HAD glass before?
Adding a third (and both the rears being ENTIRELY DIFFERENT designs) of motors to the S isn't new because it had "a" motor before?
Adding a heat pump isn't new because... it had heat I guess before?
Your argument keeps getting more desperate and ridiculous my dude.
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How a car sounds is as important as how it drives. Not even talking about at a high volume but as a finished product. Pain is speakers that are tiny and you're cranking it up just to hear a track. Pleasure is having an adaptive system which you can keep at reasonable volumes and experience your music as it should be
The S/X refresh vastly upgraded the interior and sound system.
It also significantly upgraded the motors and performance- especially the plaid.
It also significantly improved the upper end of the power curve- especially on the plaid.
It also upgraded the heating system to a heat pump.
It also upgraded the infotainment to a next-gen AMD Ryzen based unit
It also increased charging speed and reduced coefficient of drag
it also increased head and legroom, and added a rear display screen.
It also significantly improved sound deadening via added material and acoustic glass.
It was a pretty thorough refresh that added a lot
Likewise the 3 had a lot of changes, include improvements to existing systems (the suspension and headlights and wheels and aerodynamics) but ALSO had numerous parts and features added including noise reduction, improved stereo, vented front seats, and a rear infotainment display. The performance model in particular saw a number of additional new things added as well- with 30% more peak power, larger brakes, and for the first time on a 3- sport seats and an adaptive suspension. All adds for parts.
If you drive more than average sure-- otherwise a normal wall socket is all you need to put back on the avg number of miles Americans drive in a day.
This was already debunked in a previous thread. Directly to you. With a link to name brand tires for the Y comparable in price to the Rav4.
Further- I get the same # of miles on my EV as I did the Lexus it replaced-- the idea EVs burn tires much faster than a comparable ICE vehicle- unless you're a hyper aggressive driver, simply isn't so.
Why keep repeating untrue things?
Funny you run the tires (using dishonest pricing and dishonest wear measures) to 115k... but then you stop the OTHER maintenance costs at...well, let's see:
You stopped there because the next BIG batch of maintenance expenses come right after that number.
But ran the tires- specifically- to 115k.
Again this was called out, specifically to you, the last time you tried this misrepresentation of the cost comparison.
If you can't argue honestly why argue?
I've built/worked on a number of performance cars. Including Supras BTW.
Know what an EV never does? blow a head gasket.
So first- you mean the EX30.
Second- You are conflating two different things.
The $7500 IRA credit is not available on purchase of the EX30, because it's a Chinese made car with Chinese batteries.
Volvo can LEASE those cars (not sell them) and pocket the $7500 themselves- and could pass that savings on to the leasing party though.
The other item is the ~25% tariff of Chinese cars--- while it's true they can potentially offset that with export credits, they don't export THAT many cars-- so they won't be able to offset THAT many EX30s coming in.
if they plan to just sell a tiny # that'll work fine for them--- but then expect dealers to markup the cars like hell because they'll be scarce.
*** quick edit here-- it just got a lot worse for Volvo-
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bide...inese-evs/
The tariffs on Chinese EVs are going up from ~25% to ~100%.
They can still offset that with their exports from the US.... but only at 1/4 the previous (already pretty low) volume.
Have a Nice Day!
For them it's an emotional investment that they pump Tesla everywhere possible.
An entire rear screen that didn't exist isn't new because a front screen existed?
An entire new suspension isn't new because it HAD a suspension before?
Acoustic glass isn't new because it HAD glass before?
Adding a third (and both the rears being ENTIRELY DIFFERENT designs) of motors to the S isn't new because it had "a" motor before?
Adding a heat pump isn't new because... it had heat I guess before?
Your argument keeps getting more desperate and ridiculous my dude.
Have a Nice Day!
A mobile connector? No you'd need to buy that if you need one- it's $250 (rather than the $800+ some folks were quoting- one can only assume they meant also installing a 240v socket where none exists- but as I mention you don't really need that unless you drive significantly more than average day to day)
https://shop.tesla.com/product/mobile-connector
It comes with plugs for a normal 5-15 wall socket and a 14-50 240v socket by default... and for ~$35 you can buy a connector for tons of other sockets (like the kind an electric dryer might plug into)
EVs have been around long enough now though that many already have an EVSE, so they wouldn't even need that... (the car comes with a J1772 adapter, so if you own an EVSE for a previous generic car you're likely good to go with nothing else)
Pretty funny how infotainment system is being touted as an "upgrade" when they were forced to do a recall and replace them because of a design flaw with the eMMC chip.
But hey, it has new speakers.
Tesla is recalling 134,951 of its 2016–2018 Model X SUVs and 2012–2018 Model S sedans to replace an infotainment system processor which can wear out and cause a failure in the some of the functions in the center screen. The recall comes after the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) took the unusual step of asking Tesla in a letter to recall these vehicles; normally, automakers agree to a voluntary recall before NHTSA formally asks.
https://www.caranddrive
Pack that in with rebates and the model y is on par/cheaper than many ice cross overs in the market today.
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Wow! What a great idea😉