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The rest of my post is pretty much informational. There's a lot of good information in it. But a few firmly believe that Dolby vision is a must-have because it's squashes HDR 10, don't even read it. There's no convincing you otherwise.
You know, the debates on this whole Dolby vision player versus the non-Dolby vision console reminds me of the PS versus Xbox discussions we've had for God knows how long.
The bottom line is Microsoft fixed the elevated black levels. The Xbox series X is a fantastic 4K UHD Blu-ray player and 2K Blu-ray player.
The above statement cannot be any simpler than that.
But the Xbox series X drive is a little noisier than a dedicated player. I can hear mine from 12 feet away when there's absolutely no other sounds from the movie playing. So that is not really a big deal from my use case.
If you have a Logitech remote or a media remote then that's a non-issue also. I mean who controls their console with the game controller when watching movies? I guess some people do. I've even done it and it's relatively easy to do.
Spend 30 minutes on YouTube listening to reviewers, and I mean the good ones like Vincent teoh on HDTVtest, assess HDR 10 versus Dolby vision.
Spoiler alert:. The differences are so minimal, that you can only discern a difference when doing a side-by-side comparison of a Dolby vision movie versus the HDR 10 version. In other words, don't let Dolby vision make or break your buying decision. HDR 10 on a calibrated system looks fantastic.
There's no doubt that this Panasonic 820 is a fantastic player also. I personally will not buy one because I have an Xbox series X and an Xbox One S that do a great job at playing 4K discs. And it's not important enough for me to have a player that plays Dolby vision discs based on the assessment of multiple experienced calibrators and reviewers.
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8:20 into the video. A respected reviewer. Not as respected as Vincent teoh though, but who is?
Anyway it's an HDR 10 head to head comparison between the series X and the ub820.
Issues with black level and contrast can be dismissed because the contrast was affected by the elevated black levels, and the black levels were fixed in the Xbox series X a while ago.
The moral of the story is for HDR 10 content, off of disc, there's no difference between these players are so small that anyone with an Xbox series X should probably not be purchasing a standalone Blu-ray player.
Caveat is that he used his eyes his room his equipment.
Those are two very important aspects of image quality.
Those are two very important aspects of image quality.
I said dismiss the black levels and contrast issue because it was not an issue in the follow-up reviews, and there were several, looking at the fixed black levels.
But you are right, the black levels and contrast is a big part of the picture. That's why the Xbox series X was rightfully pounded for getting that wrong right out of the box. How Can Microsoft make such a simple stupid mistake? But we're lucky that they fix the issue.
I agree with the best TV/Projector and sound system, you should be notice a difference between Dolby Vision & HDR10. If you spent 10k+ money in your home theater, go for the best blu-ray player.
Or if you're like me, have limited budge and want to be able to do more, XSX is probably a better choice (assume you or your family play games as well).
It looks like XSX supply is doing slightly better recently and probably you can score one without too much effort.
The Panasonic can tone Map because the user tells it capabilities of the display. That's why the Panasonic Can tone map.
I do not see how the Xbox series X will tone map, and I'm talking about playing 4K UHD discs not gaming, because it has no idea the capabilities of the display. So there's no way for it to tone map because it doesn't know what the tone map to without knowing the display brightness.
Everything I've read, and reviewee videos I watched, about Xbox series X tone mapping applies to gaming only. Not uhd disks. And that's what I'm focused on in this thread.
So in that case, the only thing the Xbox series X Lacks compared to all of the other players out there, except for the panasonics, there's nothing. The Xbox series X as a Blu-ray player 4K is the same as every other player out there. The only thing Panasonic brings to the table is the option of tone mapping and a higher quality upscale for non 4K content. Well, this Dolby vision also but comparing that the HDR 10 on a calibrated display is not a huge benefit. I'll certainly not worth the price of $400 in this case when the 420 for $150 would be better.
But even the reviewers say, and it's common knowledge, the tone mapping is not needed if the display does it well. We'll have to agree to disagree on how well my JVC and Sony tone map since I'm not at Liberty too do a side by side comparison for myself with my eyes my equipment my room.
But I appreciate your posts and your opinion.
8:20 into the video. A respected reviewer. Not as respected as Vincent teoh though, but who is?
Anyway it's an HDR 10 head to head comparison between the series X and the ub820.
Issues with black level and contrast can be dismissed because the contrast was affected by the elevated black levels, and the black levels were fixed in the Xbox series X a while ago.
The moral of the story is for HDR 10 content, off of disc, there's no difference between these players are so small that anyone with an Xbox series X should probably not be purchasing a standalone Blu-ray player.
Caveat is that he used his eyes his room his equipment.
As YOU stated all you are concerned about is UHD HDR disc and thats it.
Aside from the many unknowns with that comparison. IMO if he did that with 5 different disc he would get 5 different results, transfers vary widely with content.
So for everyone else I'll point out to my point about the issue with reading and interpretation of it.
If you notice at no point does he say the Xbox does nothing/no tone mapping, he just points out the tone mapping the Panasonic does.
No dispute about the chain so there still nothing showing a pass thru with tone mapping on the Xbox. So even if you believe the display does it better Panasonic is the only player that will let you do that.
For people that may be curious or bored and hopefully you "read" this correctly here is something to read. For the people that don't want to read the conclusion says and I quote:
"Ultimately tone mapping is a necessary and important solution to the problem of modern video content far exceeding the display capabilities of the current generation of TVs. It will be a long time before consumer TVs can fully display all HDR material exactly as it was graded by the content creators but in the meantime tone mapping provides the best way of ensuring that an HDR TV can display this content to the best of its abilities."
https://www.avforums.co
CalmCreator and that video wants to make the comparison as 4K players so lets look at that way.
An X cost $400 this Panasonic $400
Lets go with that ONE UHD HDR disc comparison, it's a tie.
Even CalmCreator states with BD "higher quality upscale for non 4K content", Panasonic wins
Again DVD "higher quality upscale for non 4K content", Panasonic wins.
You get DV so even if you believe it's "not a huge benefit", it's still a benefit--Panasonic wins
As the guy in the video glosses over, the adjustments Panasonic gives you.
Those are beneficial for any display, ESPECIALLY for a projector---Panasonic win.
If you are knowledgable on Projectors those settings adjustments should look familiar and it applies to non 4K content also!
If you agree with CalmCreator's DV opinion then you are at the $150 range because the 420 gives everything I just pointed out minus DV.
Again this opinion isn't from reading anything it's from personal experience.
I also appreciate your opinion and good debate.
8:20 into the video. A respected reviewer. Not as respected as Vincent teoh though, but who is?
Anyway it's an HDR 10 head to head comparison between the series X and the ub820.
Issues with black level and contrast can be dismissed because the contrast was affected by the elevated black levels, and the black levels were fixed in the Xbox series X a while ago.
The moral of the story is for HDR 10 content, off of disc, there's no difference between these players are so small that anyone with an Xbox series X should probably not be purchasing a standalone Blu-ray player.
Caveat is that he used his eyes his room his equipment.
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By turning on the optimizer, I think we all agree that it has the potential for providing a better picture for displays that don't do a very good job tone mapping.
By turning on the optimizer, I think we all agree that it has the potential for providing a better picture for displays that don't do a very good job tone mapping.
You are looking at ONE benefit of many of a "standalone player" and use that to compare it to the X and then saying:
"The moral of the story is for HDR 10 content, off of disc, there's no difference between these players are so small that anyone with an Xbox series X should probably not be purchasing a standalone Blu-ray player."
As I pointed out the other advantages, you can see as a "standalone player" it does not offer much for the price.
Now if your were to saying the X was good enough as a player for you since it also plays games, there is no debate. I even mentioned if that was the case I would probably agree.
You clearly are not saying that, you keep debating "I still think the Xbox series X is an excellent player", that is not the same and IMO a little misleading.
We can just move on and just agree to disagree. Good luck
You are looking at ONE benefit of many of a "standalone player" and use that to compare it to the X and then saying:
"The moral of the story is for HDR 10 content, off of disc, there's no difference between these players are so small that anyone with an Xbox series X should probably not be purchasing a standalone Blu-ray player."
As I pointed out the other advantages, you can see as a "standalone player" it does not offer much for the price.
Now if your were to saying the X was good enough as a player for you since it also plays games, there is no debate. I even mentioned if that was the case I would probably agree.
You clearly are not saying that, you keep debating "I still think the Xbox series X is an excellent player", that is not the same and IMO a little misleading.
We can just move on and just agree to disagree. Good luck
I conceed that the panasonics, the 9000, 820, and the 420 are the cream of the crop. Best players out there. I say that because they offer the HDR optimizer. Cannot be beat compared to other players.
Then there are all of the other players tied for second place, essentially.
Naturally the Xbox series X as a 4K Blu-ray player is not worth $500. It's a game console. But it is up there with the Sony x700, etc. Except for the Dolby vision that the Sony offers, but that has to be switched manually, so that's a pain in the butt. So if we take away the Dolby vision, but it's still valuable to a lot of people, the Xbox series X is a second place player tied with everybody else.
That's all I'm basically saying.
But if we really want the best performance, there's two options that beat all of the second place players. That is NVIDIA SHIELD Pro and a Plex server or Kodi. Not everyone likes the AI upscaler, but it works fairly well and it's a better upscaler than a lot of players use.
Of course the cream of the crop would be a home theater PC and madvr. By all accounts, according to the AVS forum users who have tried both the panasonics and madvr tone mapping is light years ahead of the Panasonics. I have not compared the two so I'm just regurgitating what I read about mad VR tone mapping
I conceed that the panasonics, the 9000, 820, and the 420 are the cream of the crop. Best players out there. I say that because they offer the HDR optimizer. Cannot be beat compared to other players.
Then there are all of the other players tied for second place, essentially.
Naturally the Xbox series X as a 4K Blu-ray player is not worth $500. It's a game console. But it is up there with the Sony x700, etc. Except for the Dolby vision that the Sony offers, but that has to be switched manually, so that's a pain in the butt. So if we take away the Dolby vision, but it's still valuable to a lot of people, the Xbox series X is a second place player tied with everybody else.
That's all I'm basically saying.
But if we really want the best performance, there's two options that beat all of the second place players. That is NVIDIA SHIELD Pro and a Plex server or Kodi. Not everyone likes the AI upscaler, but it works fairly well and it's a better upscaler than a lot of players use.
Of course the cream of the crop would be a home theater PC and madvr. By all accounts, according to the AVS forum users who have tried both the panasonics and madvr tone mapping is light years ahead of the Panasonics. I have not compared the two so I'm just regurgitating what I read about mad VR tone mapping
Well if whatever you read and interpreted about this home theater PC and madvr is like you did about the Xbox X I may have doubts already.
Especially if it's anything as time consuming,costly,etc to setup like people portray a setup is with plex.
Hard for me to imagine it being "light years ahead" worth the price over $150.
Even you believe DV can be a very subtle difference over HDR that's not worth the money.
My guess is if it was I'm pretty sure it would have made its way over here already.
I haven't heard much about it but then not much interest in it for me since the portability does nothing for me and I have no problem putting a disc into a player.
I'll just have to take your word on it.
Anyways good luck thanks again.
Well left out the cost of the PC and MADVR, which is?
Oh wait let me guess that's an "insane question" ! 🤣
Heck you won't even explain how you claim you can tell us all how something "sounds" like without ever actually listening to it???
Oh btw you can get the same performance from the 420(minus DV) which you can get for $150 on sale! 😜
Oh wait let me guess that's an "insane question" !
Heck you won't even explain how you claim you can tell us all how something "sounds" like without ever actually listening to it???
Oh btw you can get the same performance from the 420(minus DV) which you can get for $150 on sale!