expirediconian | Staff posted May 10, 2024 11:33 PM
Item 1 of 2
Item 1 of 2
expirediconian | Staff posted May 10, 2024 11:33 PM
Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2-Channel THX Certified AV Receiver
+ Free Shipping$899
$1,600
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They also own a few other audio brands
https://www.voxxintl.co
I actually own this unit and for this price I dont know anything on the market that touches it for home theater applications
I suggest you read the AVS forum thread from actual owners who have set this up and know the tips and tricks specific to this Onkyo
Each brand seems to have implement Dirac a bit differently..IMO..the Onkyo is a simplified set up of Dirac
https://www.avsforum.co
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You have that data and sales numbers to show
We have to remember the RZ50 has been out 3 years now...so long on tooth at this point in the Asian AVR world
I have bought both the prior Denon flagship AVR at 50% off MSRP and the corresponding Marantz prepro at 40% at about 2 years into their life cycle
Dont own either anymore as they both got replaced with Arcam units
Ofcourse you would need to know how many they sold as well......
Ofcourse you would need to know how many they sold as well......
You have that data and sales numbers to show
We have to remember the RZ50 has been out 3 years now...so long on tooth at this point in the Asian AVR world
I have bought both the prior Denon flagship AVR at 50% off MSRP and the corresponding Marantz prepro at 40% at about 2 years into their life cycle
Dont own either anymore as they both got replaced with Arcam units
Onkyo RZ50 (refurbished) - 58
Denon 3800 (refurbished) - 37
(Inventory as of 5/14/24 ~10:10 PM EST)
I will also add that if the RZ50 and the Denon 3800 are at minimum comparable to each other (performance-wise) in customer's eyes, then there should be fewer RZ50s due to the consistently lower price!
Yes, this is only one datapoint but good luck getting more info w/o being part of the industry!
For folks w/easy to drive 8 ohm nominal speakers, the RZ50 is a great value! However, I have still to read about someone driving Martin Logans on the RZ50 alone (no external amp)!
Otherwise it an assumption based on limited information, at best
Then you are mixing metrics
For the arena of slick deals
First off..I dont think the slick deals crowd, for the most part, cares that AVR's get poor ratings at AV science
DLBC and ART dont seem like " must haves" either on slick deals
So what value does the DenonX3800, in the slick deals realm, have over the Onkyo RZ50 or frankly the 7100
On the higher level spectrum where people start to care about SINAD numbers, amp power supply performance, DLBC and ART the X3800 is WAY overpriced
Now, if the "every other week price "was $899 for the Denon X3800 I would have a different opinion
These Onkyo's( RZ50 and 7100) are a heck of a deal and from what I read in 3 years of owner's people seem very satisfied...with no complaints about the power limiting that AV Science experienced.
Again, I dont think the crowd buying the units cares as it meets their expectations
For the higher performance crowd the RZ70 seems to check all the boxes( for the under $3500 crowd, IMO)
At the $2k ish price that keeps popping up on it its also another deal, IMO
How often it hits this price is irrelevant, it's that it does, you just grab it when it does.
Bench/SINAD numbers are only important by choice, many people understand most aren't audible anyways.
The RZ70 amps are really only a benefit IF all your speakers are full range/reference and need the power.
If not, an external amp negates the benefit imo.
We buy AVRs with pre-outs for a reason after all.
IMO the 3800 checks off all the boxes the RZ70 has and then some.
Not much talk regarding RZ70 getting ART either.
This coming from one the ones that claims Dirac Live includes THEIR bass management without proof😆
Oh wait Art Collector got the proof, from guess who…..Dirac!
According to Dirac Support:
"Yes, standard Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management."!!!
Then goes on to claim how he knows Dirac's DLBC has no real benefit, having no experience with it😆
Same price as this with all the features of the RZ70 and then some!
People can make their own conclusions on whether it's superior! 😜
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I've been told by folks that my screenshot looks very similar to someone who already has DLBM! Anyone who owns a Denon and has already paid for DL should immediately do their bass management within Dirac!
There is no RZ50, Pioneer 505, or Integra DRX5.4 that has this menu option to the right because it's missing the critical SHARC chip! Not being able to address bass management within Dirac itself has caused quite a bit of bass issues and no doubt could be a partial cause for some unhappy returns. If you don't have 4 ohm speakers or don't ever plan to use Dirac, no harm no foul!
Our community has rated this post as helpful. If you agree, why not thank fourml8r
Onkyo RZ50 (refurbished) - 58
Denon 3800 (refurbished) - 37
(Inventory as of 5/14/24 ~10:10 PM EST)
Yes, this is only one datapoint but good luck getting more info w/o being part of the industry!
Return rate - NONE of the manufacturers reveal their return rate (It is also not as important as you make it out to be, more on that below). it is impossible for anyone here to state that brand "X has a higher return rate than brand "Y" or imply that one brand has a higher quality than another based on that number (Which again is not available to the public)..
Inventory - you implied that inventory from ONE vendor means that more units = more defective units. that is incorrect. this all depends on product ordering / turnover and distributor shipment timing. suppose they just got a shipment of RXZ50s. Check back next week when the Denon shipment comes in and those numbers could easily be reversed. And again this is only ONE vendor, they do not represent the entire industry.
Statistics - you took a big leap with this one trying to make a statistical conclusion based on one data point that is from only one of several vendors. if you had access to that data you would likely find it to be non-conclusive based on the purchase timing of each vendor. my one bit of insight here is that i do have access to some data via their distribution system. typically the number of denon refurbs available (across the entire brand) is about 4-5 times that of onkyo. but that is misleading as it is a TOTAL number of units, not a "refurb / failure rate" as denon manufactures more units than onkyo does.it also does not take into account rebadged products. Denon has the same (rebadged) model under a marantz nameplate and onkyo can be under pioneer elite or integra. trying to make an overall comparison from ONE vendor, on ONE model based on inventory at ONE moment is going to be wildly inaccurate across the entire model range from all vendors using rolling inventory average.
What are returns / refurbs - people think these are solely customer returns and that is incorrect. customer returns may be defective items, but many are not. if the customer doesn't like the product for any reason (didn't fit in my AV cabinet, wife didn't like color, box got damaged in transport) or any other non-quality related reason). refurbs are also comprised of QA/QC product checks. these are done routinely during manufacturing so they can check product performance and or manufacturing tolerances. these also get checked for new component batches (say a new lot of processor boards came in).
hopefully that provides the insight you are looking for and that your posts in the future can be more accurate / representative of the real world instead of wildly misleading.
Return rate - NONE of the manufacturers reveal their return rate (It is also not as important as you make it out to be, more on that below). it is impossible for anyone here to state that brand "X has a higher return rate than brand "Y" or imply that one brand has a higher quality than another based on that number (Which again is not available to the public)..
Inventory - you implied that inventory from ONE vendor means that more units = more defective units. that is incorrect. this all depends on product ordering / turnover and distributor shipment timing. suppose they just got a shipment of RXZ50s. Check back next week when the Denon shipment comes in and those numbers could easily be reversed. And again this is only ONE vendor, they do not represent the entire industry.
Statistics - you took a big leap with this one trying to make a statistical conclusion based on one data point that is from only one of several vendors. if you had access to that data you would likely find it to be non-conclusive based on the purchase timing of each vendor. my one bit of insight here is that i do have access to some data via their distribution system. typically the number of denon refurbs available (across the entire brand) is about 4-5 times that of onkyo. but that is misleading as it is a TOTAL number of units, not a "refurb / failure rate" as denon manufactures more units than onkyo does.it also does not take into account rebadged products. Denon has the same (rebadged) model under a marantz nameplate and onkyo can be under pioneer elite or integra. trying to make an overall comparison from ONE vendor, on ONE model based on inventory at ONE moment is going to be wildly inaccurate across the entire model range from all vendors using rolling inventory average.
What are returns / refurbs - people think these are solely customer returns and that is incorrect. customer returns may be defective items, but many are not. if the customer doesn't like the product for any reason (didn't fit in my AV cabinet, wife didn't like color, box got damaged in transport) or any other non-quality related reason). refurbs are also comprised of QA/QC product checks. these are done routinely during manufacturing so they can check product performance and or manufacturing tolerances. these also get checked for new component batches (say a new lot of processor boards came in).
hopefully that provides the insight you are looking for and that your posts in the future can be more accurate / representative of the real world instead of wildly misleading.
I will try to keep speculations to a minimum. For now, my only speculation is that the 3800 and higher Denons will get ART by virtue of the SHARC chip. While processors like StormAudio are capable of much higher MIPS, I don't think Dirac will lose an opportunity to make some additional money from the lower Denons! Any thoughts on this?
I've been told by folks that my screenshot looks very similar to someone who already has DLBM! Anyone who owns a Denon and has already paid for DL should immediately do their bass management within Dirac!
There is no RZ50, Pioneer 505, or Integra DRX5.4 that has this menu option to the right because it's missing the critical SHARC chip! Not being able to address bass management within Dirac itself has caused quite a bit of bass issues and no doubt could be a partial cause for some unhappy returns. If you don't have 4 ohm speakers or don't ever plan to use Dirac, no harm no foul!
If I miss spoke please correct me.
What is your opinion on what bass management Dirac Live provides?
What benefit does DLBC offer over Dirac Live?
Edit: I guess I didn't misspeak, shocker! 🤷🏻 ♂️
Ofcourse you would need to know how many they sold as well......
"so I find this "99%" number really hard to believe"
The reason I told him to ask you.
In the other RZ50 post YOU said:
"the AVR in this thread should meet all of the expectations of 99% of the slick deal audience"
The thing missing is you didn't show the data to prove that?
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Perhaps rz50 has the reviews and place on their over all line up that they are reluctant to give that high of a price break.
Thanks OP for listing. Holding out to see if they come down a bit more.
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