expirediconian | Staff posted Dec 03, 2023 07:32 PM
Item 1 of 2
Item 1 of 2
expirediconian | Staff posted Dec 03, 2023 07:32 PM
Onkyo TX-NR7100 9.2-Channel 8K/4K Network A/V Receiver
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$1,299
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It's a pleasure to assist you. Regarding your product inquiry, the following retailer/vendor seller Adorama is an authorized seller.They are authorized.
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Again, if you're happy with the response in your particular room and you don't have any major cancellations then further tuning may not be worth the effort. There is a reason miniDSP's are popular for subwoofers - they can improve the response significantly if set up properly but of course it's not always worth the effort and there may very well be no improvement in the end.
Here's a discussion on time vs phase alignment:
https://gearspace.com/board/so-mu...align.html
All we're taking about are audible frequencies within the crossover "range" covered by both sub and mains. Frequencies outside of that range are irrelevant. I doubt anyone could tell if a 5khz tone was "out of phase" or "time" with a 30hz tone when played simultaneously.
Look at any speaker's phase response. They're all over the place from 20 to 20khz. Like a roller coaster.
"We are sorry, There was something wrong, we couldn't complete the order, Please try again or contact customer service at 800-815-0702"
I should add, so I called and talked to a sales person and the price as he sees it is $689, so he said that's why it's failing, and they couldn't do the $599 price.
All we're taking about are audible frequencies within the crossover "range" covered by both sub and mains. Frequencies outside of that range are irrelevant. I doubt anyone could tell if a 5khz tone was "out of phase" or "time" with a 30hz tone when played simultaneously.
Look at any speaker's phase response. They're all over the place from 20 to 20khz. Like a roller coaster.
I mean you seem pretty convinced that it wouldn't help in your system. I could probably go back to all my measurements and show the differences - to me it was worth the effort as the bass impact was improved significantly.
As a note I did read some subs may actually affect time delay more than a typical phase shift - Rythmik subs in particular. For example some of their plate amps have the delay printed on the phase dial - depending on the model it seems to range from 6ms to 16ms at 180 degrees.
I mean you seem pretty convinced that it wouldn't help in your system. I could probably go back to all my measurements and show the differences - to me it was worth the effort as the bass impact was improved significantly.
As a note I did read some subs may actually affect time delay more than a typical phase shift - Rythmik subs in particular. For example some of their plate amps have the delay printed on the phase dial - depending on the model it seems to range from 6ms to 16ms at 180 degrees.
Let's start with this…outside of the crossover range of the sub and mains (where they overlap), does any alignment (phase or time) even matter? If so, please explain how it would even be perceivable.
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Let's start with this…outside of the crossover range of the sub and mains (where they overlap), does any alignment (phase or time) even matter? If so, please explain how it would even be perceivable.
It's true that with a single subwoofer alignment with the mains is most important but with multiple subwoofers how they interact with each other is very important as well.
One way you can simulate whether time alignment would make any difference in your specific setup is to use REW's alignment tool which simulates time delay, phase and how it affects the frequency response. I did this before buying a minidsp and found it did improve my nulls, the EQ is helpful as well because the two subs have quite different responses in room even though you'd think they would be very similar.
Here is an overview on the alignment tool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga2eOwJ
"We are sorry, There was something wrong, we couldn't complete the order, Please try again or contact customer service at 800-815-0702"
I should add, so I called and talked to a sales person and the price as he sees it is $689, so he said that's why it's failing, and they couldn't do the $599 price.
It's true that with a single subwoofer alignment with the mains is most important but with multiple subwoofers how they interact with each other is very important as well.
One way you can simulate whether time alignment would make any difference in your specific setup is to use REW's alignment tool which simulates time delay, phase and how it affects the frequency response. I did this before buying a minidsp and found it did improve my nulls, the EQ is helpful as well because the two subs have quite different responses in room even though you'd think they would be very similar.
Here is an overview on the alignment tool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga2eOwJ
My question is…
outside of the crossover "range" of the sub and mains (where they overlap), does any alignment (phase or time) even matter? If so, please explain how it would even be perceivable.
It also sounds a lot like you're chasing after good measurements and have possible confirmation bias that you actually hear the "improvement". This happens to a lot of people that follow this rabbit hole.
Long story, short…you can spend a lot of time and effort perfectly "aligning" speakers with measurements, but, due to room acoustics, move over a seat or two and it's all out of "alignment" again.
The open box prices for Denons and the Pioneers were way higher for some reason.
My question is…
outside of the crossover "range" of the sub and mains (where they overlap), does any alignment (phase or time) even matter? If so, please explain how it would even be perceivable.
It also sounds a lot like you're chasing after good measurements and have possible confirmation bias that you actually hear the "improvement". This happens to a lot of people that follow this rabbit hole.
Long story, short…you can spend a lot of time and effort perfectly "aligning" speakers with measurements, but, due to room acoustics, move over a seat or two and it's all out of "alignment" again.
In terms of moving a seat over - that's why it's good to take many measurements. For example I took 18 measurements per speaker and subwoofer (very much like you'd do in Dirac) when I went through MSO to account for different positions - as mentioned it was time consuming but the results were worth it.
The open box prices for Denons and the Pioneers were way higher for some reason.
In terms of moving a seat over - that's why it's good to take many measurements. For example I took 18 measurements per speaker and subwoofer (very much like you'd do in Dirac) when I went through MSO to account for different positions - as mentioned it was time consuming but the results were worth it.
And you can't align speakers from so any positions in a room. Acoustics simply doesn't work like that. Moving speakers or moving the listener throws everything off.
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